Edelbrock E Street Heads - Any thoughts?

[66 4D 289]

I'm currently looking at some options for upgrading the stock heads on my '66 289 and came across the Edelbrock E-street aluminum cylinder heads. Here's the link.

Edelbrock E-Street Cylinder Heads 5023 - Edelbrock E-Street Cylinder Heads - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Has any body got a pair of these on their engine? How are they compared to the Edelbrock performer RPM heads?
At present the parts I'm wanting/planning to use for the top end build are as follows:

Weiand stealth intake
Holley 570 SA carb
268H high energy cam

I was leaning towards a pair of windsor Jr heads, mainly due to cost but the E-street heads aren't that much more compared to the windsor Jr's. The Windsor jr's have larger intake runners and valves and are 58cc heads where as the E street has smaller intake runners and valves and a larger CC volume but are aluminum.
What's going to be the better heads to use that'll make the most from the parts I've got listed above? Windsor Jrs or Edelbrocks ( E-street or Performer Rpm)
Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.

P.S: Have done a search already and read the on going cast iron vs aluminum heads debate. I'm happy with either one, just want to know whats best for my build

 

[camachinist]

What's the short block condition? Application? Trans type and setup? Rear gearing? Do you want to grow this combo in the future?

Those look like a nice mild head, not much different than the C9 casting W heads I used to prep for the street. They worked pretty good. Only drawback for a 289 is the relatively large chamber volume, but that shouldn't be an issue if you're running flattops. IMO, if you're not going to run a dual pattern cam, these heads should work OK. Nice small camshaft.

I have a set of Perf RPM's on the race car (very early iteration, right after introduction) and they've performed well and been reliable. I wouldn't run them on a mild street engine. I still like iron heads on the street but I know a lot of guys run aluminum now. Hopefully you get some good opinion.

 

[66 4D 289]

Trans is C4 auto, Rear end gears are either 2.83:1 or 3.20:1, cant quite remember. More than likely I'll be upgrading the torque converter while the engines out and possibly a shift kit as well depending on the budget. Engine is still running good so can only assume short block is in good condition. Wont know til it's apart. THe machine shop will give it a good going over. If they're still Ok I'll be re-using the stock pistons with new rings, otherwise I'll get a set of Hyperuetectics (sp) or go all out for forged...maybe over kill I'm hoping to do it all in one go but HP can be addictive right It'll be mainly for street use, no track time.

 

[camachinist]

If you're rebuilding the engine and using the 60cc chamber heads and want to grow the combo, I'd suggest a flat-top piston to compensate for the larger chamber, assuming the current heads are the 54-56cc OEM iron heads. Personally, I would not re-use OEM pistons, even if the block could be flex-honed. Most likely, there will be some taper and wear at the top of the cylinder bores and you'll need to re-bore the block, necessitating new pistons.

IIRC, OEM gearing is 2.8 or 3.0 most commonly, so, if you keep that, go with an 11" converter. You can grow the gear to 3.50-3.70 and still get good economy and it will really work well with your engine combo and the 11" converter. Shift kit and cooler are a must for the C4.

With a similar combo (ported iron heads since they didn't make aluminum ones back in the 70's), and running 3.50 gears, I ran 14.00's right at 100 mph (just a fraction over) in a '67 coupe back when I was a teenager. All the car I ever needed at that time and it was my daily driver. 4.62's put it into the 13's. Remember, 289's like to spin, so, if you're going for a performance angle, keep that in mind. Run a mild cam and spin it. You'll be surprised how much it'll give back.

 

[66 4D 289]

Yeah the heads are OEM 54-56cc iron. The Windsor Jr's are closer to stock CC volume which is one of the reasons I leaned towards them in the first place. I don't really want to screw around too much with the CR and the aluminum heads are a bit of a jump up from stock. I realise my CR will change with differnt heads etc but I dont want to drastic of a change.
Aren't the stock pistons flat tops anyways? With 4 valve reliefs right? I had planned on getting hyper.. versions of the stock ones, but maybe a size up. Am I better using something else? I was only going that route as I was trying to avoid piston to Valve contact No one wants that right

Realy appreciate the feedback. It's big dollars to fork out and I can only afford to do it once.

 

[woodsnake]

Flat top pistons are just that, flat across the top.
Your piston to valve clearance will become an issue when you start looking at a camshaft change.
When you get your new HP cam you will want to check your P2V clearance.

A lot of guys will say don't worry about it, I say trust, but VERIFY. I'm probably one of the most vocal guys about proper valve train geometry, only because I had to learn the hard way.

As far as the "E" street heads go, I have no input. I have a pair of performer rpm heads with he 2.02 valves, but I'm saving my pennies in case I need new valves, in order to maintain my geometry......

 

[camachinist]

True flat-tops (the OEM pistons have a slight depression in the middle, in addition to the valve reliefs) should yield between 10 and 10.5:1 CR with the early iron heads. With the larger heads, 9.3-9.5 or so. Good for street use. This assumes no other modifications, like deck removal and/or head surfacing.

With the valve sizes you're using and cam profile, you shouldn't have any valve-piston clearance issues during overlap, but always check anyway. By checking, you can see how much room you have to grow the combo in the camshaft area, as well as the obvious part.

IMO, and a practice I've always followed, once I depart from OEM, I build the entire engine as a unit, designed for a specific purpose, rather than add parts here and there. Design-build yields a more cost-effective and efficient end product, and one which generally lasts longer, since everything is in balance.

 

[jasonsny]

Good isntall piece on E-Streets: Installing Edelbrock E-Street Cylinder Heads - Muscle Mustang & Fast Fords Magazine

 

[Decurion]

I think the E-street heads are basically regular performer heads, but with a cheaper valvetrain. Thats fine if you dont plan to upgrade later on, but it sounds like you may want to go bigger later on. The link you posted clearly states

Designed for use with hydraulic camshafts less than .500 in. lift. Requires use of hardened pushrods. Part number 9680 head bolt bushing kit required for use with 7/16 in. head bolts.

, so take that into consideration. If you are sure you dont want to go with a bigger cam, and if what Ive heard is true, then they are a great deal. If you think you may want to go a little bigger eventually, I would say get the better Performer RPMs right now for about $300 more. If you dont mind a little extra weight of cast iron, I have a set of Windsor Jrs.

 

[66 4D 289]

Loving the feedback. Food for thought thats for sure.

At this stage I'm pretty sure I'm gonna stick with the cam I listed earlier. I didn't want anything that was too aggressive yet something that was an improvement from the stock cam. Unless somebodies got a better suggestion than the 268H, I'm all ears. I did want to try and avoid the P2V problem at all cost. While the block is at the machine shop they'll be checking if the decks are square, other than that they probably wont be touched short of a light surface grind for the new heads....if needed.

Another question. Would these be a suitable replacement for the stock pistons

Speed Pro ZL2482F20 - Speed-Pro Power Forged Pistons - Overview - SummitRacing.com

I'm trying to plan this build carefully and wanting to make sure I've got all the right parts for the build and not wasting money. I gues that where stangnet comes in handy

 

[camachinist]

Those Speed Pro pistons are an exact duplicate of the TRW's I put in my first SBF 33 years ago. Never a peep. When you make changes like that, you'll of course have to balance the rotating assembly.

BTW, I'm curious.... someone had mentioned the Perf RPM's as an option. Mine have a crossover heat delete, meaning no exhaust gases circulate under the intake plenum. Do the new ones also have that? If so, it might make for some rough running in cold weather, if you live in a cold climate location. This affects fuel economy, performance and to a certain extent, longevity, since fuel can puddle and sporadic over-rich conditions can result, washing the cylinder walls of lubricant.

It sounds like you're essentially building what I built back when I was 17, but with better heads. If you do it right, you shouldn't have any problem running 13's and getting 15-18 mpg when cruising. Only difference was I ran an Isky solid lifter cam of about the same spec (less duration at .050"). Have fun!

 

[rhyno9]

I was leaning towards a pair of windsor Jr heads, mainly due to cost but the E-street heads aren't that much more compared to the windsor Jr's. The Windsor jr's have larger intake runners and valves and are 58cc heads where as the E street has smaller intake runners and valves and a larger CC volume but are aluminum.

Windsor Jrs have a revised plug angle which makes driver side header fitment a challenge with spark plug wires. I am required to use accel shorty plugs and then I had to cut/extend and reweld 3 tubes.

 

[woodsnake]

66 4D 289, where do you live? I have an extra 289, and engine kit, and cam kit that I'd be willing to part with. Shipping would be bear though....
This cam

COMP Cams K31-414-3 - COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Cam and Lifter Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com

And the pistons, rings, blah blah blah.

 

[bikefreak600]

if your unsure of the performance now then just save up for the heads you really want. in the future chances are you will sell them for a loss just to buy a bigger set of heads. i started out with performer rpm heads, ended up selling them before ever bolting them on to the engine before i realized i wanted a bigger head. same with the cam etc. i spent $1800 on heads cam and intake just to sell them brand new for a used price because they became not good enough. then bought all the parts again (double the price) lol.
i REALLY WISH i would have just bought the best parts in the first place it would have saved me lots of money in the long run.

food for thought. spend the extra money now and buy vic jrs or afr's etc.. in this hobby upgrading is inevitable

+1 on the valve clearance check. small price to pay for reliable motor and peace of mind.

 

[rebel65]

any of the heads you stated are good for your combo,

guys hes not building a 7k rpm 331 or whatever, it's a 289 with hyperuretic pistons and ~flat top's

 

[66 4D 289]

Windsor Jrs have a revised plug angle which makes driver side header fitment a challenge with spark plug wires. I am required to use accel shorty plugs and then I had to cut/extend and reweld 3 tubes.

So would that apply to all types of headers or just certain ones? I'm running tri-Y's at the moment. Am I gonna have the same problem?

Saving up for the best heads does make a lot of sense. It may be a good idea to buy ones that allow for a bit more room for improvements. Definately something to think about.

Cheers all

 

[bikefreak600]

So would that apply to all types of headers or just certain ones? I'm running tri-Y's at the moment. Am I gonna have the same problem?

Saving up for the best heads does make a lot of sense. It may be a good idea to buy ones that allow for a bit more room for improvements. Definately something to think about.

Cheers all

yea just do a little research, and determine how much power you really want to be making and go from there. if you will be happy with a 350 hp reliable streeter then those heads would be a great investment.
having a 500+ hp car is not for everyone. im not saying these heads are no good, but they are best suited for mild street use, so keep that in mind. all performance parts have there pro's and con's. the more power you have the more $$ maintenance it requires.

 

[66 4D 289]

Thanks for all the feedback. Has been a great help.

Just one more question.....for now

With the 268H camshaft, can I get away with using the springs that come on the performer RPM heads or am I better off using the ones that comp cams recommend to use with the cam. I've compared the 2 springs (Edelbrock vs comp cams) from their specs and they're both fairly close. The springs with the cam kit come with the damper while the springs on the heads don't. Is that worth the extra expense....... keeping in mind I'm not building a 7K rpm screamer

What's the best option? I'd rather not spend the extra money to buy the cam kit when I can just buy the cam and lifters and use whats already installed on the head.

 

[camachinist]

When I installed the RPM heads on my W, I bought the complete heads and used them as is with a SVO A333 solid lifter camshaft. Those heads have a single spring with damper. Only change was adding 7/16" ARP studs for the roller rockers. Engine saw 7000-7500 rpm regularly at the track. No issues.

I'd run the springs which come with the head for your mild camshaft. You should get 30-40K miles in performance use before any operational maintenance.