Electric Vacume Pumps for crankcase Evac

352Ford2 · Jan 19, 2006

I have been thinking of trying one of those Electric vacume pumps GM used in the 80's-90's for the brake booster as an crankcase evac setup. I should be able to pick one up from the local junkyard for under 10 bucks.

anyone useing them or thinking of using them?

how much vacume can they pull( well PV=NRT so I guess a better question is how much do they pull on a running SBF)?
how do they like oily air (even with an oil trap you still get some)?
any other issues?

vristang · Jan 19, 2006

Subcribing because I like the way you think.

I would imagine the vac from that pump to be great enough to be of some use, if it was able to assist the brakes on a GM car.

I would like to know some applications of this pump too. What cars were they used on?

jason

HISSIN50 · Jan 19, 2006

352Ford2 · Jan 19, 2006

I figure pick up a few horsepower and better ring sealing for only a couple bucks sounds like a great idea

As far as I can tell he pump came from several models of GM cars made from 1982 to 199x. The vacuum pump was used as an auxiliary brake booster vacuum source. These 4 cylinder cars had problems providing enough vacuum for the brake booster while at an idle. There are a few diffrent part numbers for it, but I am not sure how much diffrence there is between the diffrent applications. I have also heard them being on corvetts and other cars, so this is not a compleat list

Buick
82 Skyhawk-J
82- 85 Skylark-X

Pontiac
85-86 6000
82 J2000
82-84 Phoenix-X
Chevrolet
84-86 Celebrity-A
82 Caprice-B
82 Cavalier-J
82-85 Citation-X
Cadillac
82 Cimmaron

Oldsmobile
86 Cierra-A
82 Firenza-J
82-84 Omega-X

Others
93-95 Z-28 and some 96 BOP
Caddy's in 90-96

Ford Escort &Mercury Lynx diesel cars

These cars show up a lot a the local pull a part, so I should be able to get one for practicaly free.

352Ford2 · Jan 19, 2006

Come on guys, more horse power, longer engine life, easy instal, and almost free. I cant be the only guy on this forum that likes that sort of thing

vristang · Jan 19, 2006

I agree that the potential is there to make an e- vac pump a worth while investment. My only concern is if the pump can produce enough vac, and move enough volume to have a significant affect.

This is where some experiance from another Stangnet member would be great.

Anyone tried this?

Regardless, I will be hitting the wrecking yard this weekend to see what I can scrounge up.

jason

ryanp · Jan 19, 2006

i used one on my 2.3 turbo mustang...worked great i think mine came off a newer camaro i believe. Don't quote me but yea it held a good vacuum on the crankcase of the 2.3L more than plenty for a 302....works great on blown applications to keep oil from leaking out from every seal under heavy boost! i also ran a oil trap otherwise the air the pump blows out will be full of oil and then your back were ya started! hope that helps.

352Ford2 · Jan 20, 2006

excelent, I think I am going to try and grap one or two this weekend and play with them. Any failures from oily air going to the pump?

Rick 91GT · Jan 20, 2006

The electric pumps usually do not pull enough to make a difference.... If you plan to use a vac pump make sure the engine is sealed up tight, no leaks or open area's at all.

vristang · Jan 20, 2006

Rick 91GT said:
The electric pumps usually do not pull enough to make a difference.... If you plan to use a vac pump make sure the engine is sealed up tight, no leaks or open area's at all.

Good point. The VC/TB hose will need to be removed, and leaky gaskets repaired.

Any other pointers/cautions would be appreciated.

Is there going to be a functional difference between a pump designed as an emissions air pump as opposed to a pump designed to assist the brakes?

I'll be hitting the wrecking yard Sat, and will post what I find. Hope others will do the same.

jason

ryanp · Jan 20, 2006

yea i used mine to evacuate the crankcase not pull an actual vacuum on it....but I was running over 30lbs of boost on my little 2.3 and needed something to pull any blowby out of the crankcase before it found its way out the rear main or front main. And the air coming out did have a little oil residue in it but not much and it didn't hurt the pump any....I had it in there for about 2 years before i sold the car. but i do believe i had the electric smog pump and used the vacuum side of it to pull on the crankcase. If you wanted to pull and actual vacuum on a smallblock i would think you would need the pump that assisted the brakes they are more of a vacuum pump. Even then I would think you would need 2 of those because they are small pumps. But the smog pump is more like a mini shopvac...sure it has suction but not the kind you need to pull down into a vacuum. hope that helps.

TheUser · Jan 20, 2006

Nevermind - I'm an ass

87'GTstang · Jan 20, 2006

Come on now where is your history at? The GM guys used to use the ford stuff for this kind of thing, and the device that they used already comes on the stang. All that was done was the smog pump was rigged up to run as a vacuum pump rather than pumping air. The idea has been used for a long time and I work with a lot of guys that do some crazy stuff. One of the guys being the one that bored and honed a few of my blocks and he also has a few high-end race cars. One of his more practical strip cars he said produced roughly 30 hp more with a system rigged up to both valve covers eliminating the breathers, and another line going directly to the PCV valve system opening. Keep in mind that this one I think he said makes 875 hp at the rear wheels, so try if you will put his 30 hp gain in retrospect.

vristang · Jan 21, 2006

87'GTstang said:
Come on now where is your history at? The GM guys used to use the ford stuff for this kind of thing, and the device that they used already comes on the stang. All that was done was the smog pump was rigged up to run as a vacuum pump rather than pumping air. The idea has been used for a long time and I work with a lot of guys that do some crazy stuff. .

I am aware that it has been done, and that higher rpm motors will benefit more from this.

I have been hearing for years how a smog pump can be used as a vac pump. But from what I remember it would be a little tough to do with the factory 5.0 pump. The inlet to the pump (what would be used as the vac supply) is the entire front of the pump. It would be tough to hook a hose to this. Maybe I am confused, as I have not seen a stock smog pump in some time?
Besides, any power gain from using a vac on the crankcase would then be lost as parasitic drag on the crank due to the smog pump. No net gain in efficiency. This is the reason I am so excited to hear that e- pumps can be found so easily.
If there is a Ford smog pump that would bolt up to the serpentine belt, and provided easy to use inlets and oultet nipples, I would love to hear about it. What car was it used on and what years? I need enough info to find one in a parts store or a wrecking yard, or (in my world anyway) the part may as well not exist.

Again, I greatly appreciate all the comments you guys have provided.

jason

Black1987Stang · Jan 21, 2006

Ive seen this in a magazine like a year ago, u can use sometype of pump from a cobra? and rig it to the crankcase and they supposedly gained 5-7rwhp from it. Ive also heard u can use the smog pump but they dont seem strong enough to. Or like someone else mentioned (Rick?) they have evac systems that pull vacuum from the flow of the exhaust going though the exhaust pipe. I never understood how the exhaust never got into the pcv system, unless theres some filters or something

Rick 91GT · Jan 21, 2006

I've always heard Cobra pumps could be used but to be honsets I never really looked into it. I have a 96 Cobra in the shop now, I'll look at the pump later today.

I know Chevy also uses them on the newer stuff as well.

vristang · Jan 21, 2006

For any one who cares...

I was looking for some more details on where to find an e- smog pump and came up with this site.

I would still like to get more info on where to get one, if anyone has suggestions.

Here is the Ford evac pump.

This one is good too.

and another one, which is actually against the idea.

Another site

jason

vristang · Jan 21, 2006

Here is one for belt driven moroso pumps

352Ford2 · Jan 24, 2006

Hey that vacume pump that Ford Racing sells looks like a factory part (not surprising a lot of their stuff is), does anyone know what that is off of?

makes it easyer to find in the junkyard if you know what to look for.

also, any one using that ford pump? What sort of bracketry is need to bolt it up (stock stuff or junkyard avalible stuff hopefully)?

FORCED2DV8 · Jan 24, 2006

87stangdiddle said:
Ive seen this in a magazine like a year ago, u can use sometype of pump from a cobra? and rig it to the crankcase and they supposedly gained 5-7rwhp from it. Ive also heard u can use the smog pump but they dont seem strong enough to. Or like someone else mentioned (Rick?) they have evac systems that pull vacuum from the flow of the exhaust going though the exhaust pipe. I never understood how the exhaust never got into the pcv system, unless theres some filters or something

I used the exhuast on a car a built for a customer. High revving, no pvc, both valve covers have braided line going down to the exhuast just past the header collector. Motor is sealed, works enough for the application, before oil was spewing everywhere, breathers, valve cover gaskets, pvc circuit, a mess,
now is all nive and clean and tight, no oil leaks, even picked up 5 hp on dyno wiht no other changes.... I personally would invest in a actual pump to do it,

Electric Vacume Pumps for crankcase Evac

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