Electric Water Pump ???

[Mike97gt]

i am with the mechanical pump for daily driver crowd. electrics have come a long way, but how can you beat the reliability of a mechanical pump in a DD.

now if the car is not your DD then go for it the electric water pump is a good way to free up some power.

 

[propellerhead]

Aren't the radiator fans electric? Are those not reliable?

If it works for radiator fans, why won't it work for water pumps? Both are just as critical. You'll overheat if either one fails. Same risks. Same probabilities of failure.

I'm not trying to be a smartass. I'm on the fence on getting an e-pump or not but I still haven't found a really solid argument against e-pumps.

 

[Uncle Meat]

Aren't the radiator fans electric? Are those not reliable?

If it works for radiator fans, why won't it work for water pumps? Both are just as critical. You'll overheat if either one fails. Same risks. Same probabilities of failure.

I'm not trying to be a smartass. I'm on the fence on getting an e-pump or not but I still haven't found a really solid argument against e-pumps.

Apples and oranges. Electric radiator fans are computer controlled and only run part time so they tend to last longer unlike the electric water pump which runs at 100% of the time. On top of that if the radiator fans go out you won't necessarily overheat as long as you can keep air flowing through the radiator by driving the car at reasonable pace. If the electric water pump goes out your dead in the water no matter how fast you drive.

U.M.

 

[propellerhead]

The radiator fan runs less and the effects are less urgent. True, however, cycling it off and on and off and on is probably harder on an electro-mechanical device than just leaving it on. Yet we never think about a radiator fan failing when we're stuck in 100+ degree heat in the middle of summer in bumper to bumper traffic on the freeway for an hour with no off-ramp in sight and we're all going less than walking speed. We just trust our electrically driven fan to run. They have been doing so for years.

The risks of a water pump failure are the same with a mechanically driven water pump and an electrically driven water pump. If either one fails, you're dead in the water. No water flow. No cooling. No chance at life. For argement's sake, we can probably say that's an equal risk.

So that leaves us with reliability. How reliable is an electric water pump? One vendor rates their pumps at 3000 hours mean time between failure. Doesn't sould like much but if you drive at an average speed of 30 MPH, you need to go 90,000 miles before your electric water pump will fail (statistically speaking, of course). 90,000 miles? That's about six years of driving on average. That's longer than most tires. I'll take 8-10 rwhp for under $400 and run it for six years. That's a pretty good bang for the buck.

I'm not hell bent on saying electric water pumps are the greatest thing in the world. I just think they'll do fine in daily driven cars. We're just not used to the idea of having one of the last fully mechanical devices in our cars turning into an electro-mechanical widget. Just like some people hate EFI and love carburetors. Some worry about the electronic throttle control on the 05-06 Mustangs but we've had them in F-16s for a long time now.

 

[jstreet0204]

The radiator fan runs less and the effects are less urgent. True, however, cycling it off and on and off and on is probably harder on an electro-mechanical device than just leaving it on. Yet we never think about a radiator fan failing when we're stuck in 100+ degree heat in the middle of summer in bumper to bumper traffic on the freeway for an hour with no off-ramp in sight and we're all going less than walking speed. We just trust our electrically driven fan to run. They have been doing so for years.

The risks of a water pump failure are the same with a mechanically driven water pump and an electrically driven water pump. If either one fails, you're dead in the water. No water flow. No cooling. No chance at life. For argement's sake, we can probably say that's an equal risk.

So that leaves us with reliability. How reliable is an electric water pump? One vendor rates their pumps at 3000 hours mean time between failure. Doesn't sould like much but if you drive at an average speed of 30 MPH, you need to go 90,000 miles before your electric water pump will fail (statistically speaking, of course). 90,000 miles? That's about six years of driving on average. That's longer than most tires. I'll take 8-10 rwhp for under $400 and run it for six years. That's a pretty good bang for the buck.

I'm not hell bent on saying electric water pumps are the greatest thing in the world. I just think they'll do fine in daily driven cars. We're just not used to the idea of having one of the last fully mechanical devices in our cars turning into an electro-mechanical widget. Just like some people hate EFI and love carburetors. Some worry about the electronic throttle control on the 05-06 Mustangs but we've had them in F-16s for a long time now.

I used to hear the same thing about electric fuel pumps. I run an electric water pump for my intercooler, that runs as long as the engine is on, and it has not failed in almost two years. I would reccomend keeping your old one as a back up, but you are just as stranded if your alternator fails. If there was a reliability issue with a specific brand of electirc water pump, that is a different issue, but not using one simply because it is electric doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[D'SDOUBLEOGT]

Kind of hard to tell if there was anymore power as i rebuilt the engine and put headers on at the same time as the water pump

 

[san~man]

I read a thread somewhere where many people with DD's responded saying they've had no problems with their electric pumps, some even had them on for years.

Most reported gains of about 12RWHP, Meziere pump.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I have seen a lot of debates on the subject of electric water pumps on DD, never seen any consensus one way or the other as to if it is a good idea

 

[propellerhead]

That's kinda what I'm getting at. Lots of debates. Lots of fear. But no known cases of "my electric water pump died". I really think it's just the fear of going electric. I bet people said the same thing when electric cooling fans were introduced.

I still plan on doing it. It's in my list of bolt-ons to get, after suspension upgrades.

 

[hotmustang331]

IM HERE!!!! lol.
Well I have heard of 1 case...guy said his failed in 6 months, but it could have been wired incorrectly...along with possabilitys that it was on even on ACC.

I have had mine for almost 30K, and over a year and a half. 0 problems.
Meziere has a life of 2500 hours...I figured that to be about 60K.

I cant say i reccomend it, but it was my 2nd mod...and defintaly felt a gain. YOU MUST PAY ATTENETION TO YOUR WATER TEMP THOUGH...or you may blow a head gasket if the thing ever fails. I keep a close eye on mine.

Tim told me that they make around 6RWHP...although I have heard of 9RWHP gains.

So, its all up to you....But if there is any other boltons you can buy, I would reccomend that first.

 

[cooter_11]

The radiator fan runs less and the effects are less urgent. True, however, cycling it off and on and off and on is probably harder on an electro-mechanical device than just leaving it on. Yet we never think about a radiator fan failing when we're stuck in 100+ degree heat in the middle of summer in bumper to bumper traffic on the freeway for an hour with no off-ramp in sight and we're all going less than walking speed. We just trust our electrically driven fan to run. They have been doing so for years.

The risks of a water pump failure are the same with a mechanically driven water pump and an electrically driven water pump. If either one fails, you're dead in the water. No water flow. No cooling. No chance at life. For argement's sake, we can probably say that's an equal risk.

So that leaves us with reliability. How reliable is an electric water pump? One vendor rates their pumps at 3000 hours mean time between failure. Doesn't sould like much but if you drive at an average speed of 30 MPH, you need to go 90,000 miles before your electric water pump will fail (statistically speaking, of course). 90,000 miles? That's about six years of driving on average. That's longer than most tires. I'll take 8-10 rwhp for under $400 and run it for six years. That's a pretty good bang for the buck.

I'm not hell bent on saying electric water pumps are the greatest thing in the world. I just think they'll do fine in daily driven cars. We're just not used to the idea of having one of the last fully mechanical devices in our cars turning into an electro-mechanical widget. Just like some people hate EFI and love carburetors. Some worry about the electronic throttle control on the 05-06 Mustangs but we've had them in F-16s for a long time now.

I tend to disagree with almost everything you have stated. Like Uncle Meat said, it's like comparing apples and oranges when you talk about a fan and a pump. One moves air and the other moves a liquid.

I think that the third paragraph of your statement is the only valid arguement in this case. I feel that if it's not broke, don't ****in fix it.

 

[Mike97gt]

I tend to disagree with almost everything you have stated. Like Uncle Meat said, it's like comparing apples and oranges when you talk about a fan and a pump. One moves air and the other moves a liquid.

I think that the third paragraph of your statement is the only valid arguement in this case. I feel that if it's not broke, don't ****in fix it.

cooter sometimes things that are not broke can be made better. carbs were not broken fuel injection was just better. same can be said of electric fuel pumps and fans.

the only reason i dont think it should be on somebody only car is because they do then to wear out faster from what i have heard. about 40-60k miles is getting toward the end of the pumps expected life. where a mechanical pump can go a lot longer. propellerhead says he heard of them lasting 90k if thats right then i bet it wont be long untill we see some OEM uses of the electric water pump.

 

[propellerhead]

I tend to disagree with almost everything you have stated. Like Uncle Meat said, it's like comparing apples and oranges when you talk about a fan and a pump. One moves air and the other moves a liquid.

I think that the third paragraph of your statement is the only valid arguement in this case. I feel that if it's not broke, don't ****in fix it.

I'm glad you disagree and I'd like to hear why. Like I stated, I am considering getting an electric water pump and if you have strong reasons why I shouldn't, it would benefit me (and many others) to know why you think electric water pumps are not a good thing. I will never claim to be the final authority on water pumps and I will never say I know more than the entire Stanget community. There will always be someone out there who knows more than me. So please, share your knowledge on water pumps. Why is moving air vs. water an issue on the reliability of an electro-mechanical device? Why is it apples to oranges?

I appreciate you not flaming the thread. That is very respectable, sir.

 

[Monsterbishi]

If you want a degree of protection for the cooling system, you could make up a simple warning buzzer, using a hobbs style switch to detect when it drops below a certain pressure, and a thermostatic sensor to detect a temperature shift. with these hooked into a 12v buzzer that you could mount under the dash, if the water pump fails, radiator cap fails, radiator leaks, etc - you should know about it before any damage occurs.

Cheap to make, and a whole lot of peace of mind.

Personally, a electric water pump is high on my list of mods for when the car arrives, as for failures, I'd hazard that unclean coolant systems and possibly high underhood temps would be the major cause.

 

[propellerhead]

If you want a degree of protection for the cooling system, you could make up a simple warning buzzer, using a hobbs style switch to detect when it drops below a certain pressure, and a thermostatic sensor to detect a temperature shift. with these hooked into a 12v buzzer that you could mount under the dash, if the water pump fails, radiator cap fails, radiator leaks, etc - you should know about it before any damage occurs.

Cheap to make, and a whole lot of peace of mind.

Personally, a electric water pump is high on my list of mods for when the car arrives, as for failures, I'd hazard that unclean coolant systems and possibly high underhood temps would be the major cause.

Can you make a kit that will buzz if the current draw from the water pump goes to zero?

 

[Monsterbishi]

Hmm, could do that too, I'd have to make a small circuit to do it instead of using off-the-shelf sensors, but it's a good idea.

I've just got off the phone to my importer, the car is gonna be here on 10th March - yay!

 

[propellerhead]

If you can make that kit to sell for under $20 USD, you'd make a buttload of sales, I bet, once word gets around that you have these.

 

[propellerhead]

...
the only reason i dont think it should be on somebody only car is because they do then to wear out faster from what i have heard. about 40-60k miles is getting toward the end of the pumps expected life. where a mechanical pump can go a lot longer. propellerhead says he heard of them lasting 90k if thats right then i bet it wont be long untill we see some OEM uses of the electric water pump.

I didn't say I heard of one that lasted 90k miles. That's just a calculation based on the Meziere's advertised number of 3000 hours of operation. Average of 30 mph x 3000 hours = 90,000 miles.

Oh yea, one more important point: The Meziere electric water pumps flow at 55 gpm. That's more than what the stock pump does at idle. So you're getting better cooling at low RPMs. At high RPMs, it still runs at 55 gpm. So you're not getting too much flow.