Electrical Eliminate Starter Solenoid?

Blown88GT · Aug 8, 2020

RekeHavoc said:
Do any of you guys happen to know what the typical maximum amperage draw would be from the battery (fuel pump, headlights, foglights, wipers, A/C, radio all on)? 75-80A?

About that, more than a 2G can provide.

Blown88GT · Aug 8, 2020

7991LXnSHO said:
That is half my point. The other half is it is misnamed, and the name “starter solenoid” is what a replacement from most suppliers will be called. Ford might call it a starter relay, but the NAPA counterperson probably will not.

I would hardly call a typical NAPA counter person a reliable source.

7991LXnSHO · Aug 8, 2020

The term is what the electronics suppliers
call it, technically correct or not. It is like Suspension Dampers vs. Shock Absorbers. The springs handle the rough movement, but the fluid filled thingys dampen the bouncy movement of the suspension.

Around here, NAPA and Carquest usually serve the pro shops and are most likely to have professional parts people, especially compared to the DIY chains Rock Auto commercials make fun of. Please substitute whatever store in your area has the most certified counter techs, not people who think a generator is a free standing, little power plant that runs on gasoline after a storm.

I’m not sure why you are trying to pick apart and misinterpret my posts. If I stepped on your toes, I am sorry, and if you are having a bad day, may it get better!

Blown88GT said:
I would hardly call a typical NAPA counter person a reliable source.

RekeHavoc · Aug 8, 2020

Here is the 3G alternator that I currently have installed in the car. I believe it is 130A, but I can't remember. Is there any way to tell by looking at it?

I also have the PA Performance 4 AWG alternator wire kit. This came with a 200A megafuse which they state in their instructions not to change. Isn't this too large of a fuse? Shouldn't this be a 150A fuse for 4 AWG wire?

7991LXnSHO · Aug 8, 2020

I cannot find it at the moment, but jrichker had posted a number of times that total with everything on is less than the 75 amp alternstor can put out. Here is a sticky thread on how to install the 3G (130 amp) alternator.

3G Alternator Fox Upgrade

Preface: When the following procedure is complete, the ORANGE/BLACK factory alternator wire WILL NOT BE USED. Whether you cut that connector off or just leave it hanging is up to you (I prefer to just leave it tied up out of the way). Using...

www.stangnet.com

If it does not answer your fuse question, maybe info on where it is in the system will help.

Mustang5L5 · Aug 8, 2020

RekeHavoc said:
Do any of you guys happen to know what the typical maximum amperage draw would be from the battery (fuel pump, headlights, foglights, wipers, A/C, radio all on)? 75-80A?

I actually tested this before. The exterior lights are a huge draw pulling in 20-30A total. I changed a few to LED and that cut down the draw significantly.

my particukar efan was 30a continuous.

wish I could find the post where I measured this all. My meter that I used for this has since been fried.

Blown88GT · Aug 10, 2020

7991LXnSHO said:
The term is what the electronics suppliers
call it, technically correct or not. It is like Suspension Dampers vs. Shock Absorbers. The springs handle the rough movement, but the fluid filled thingys dampen the bouncy movement of the suspension.

Around here, NAPA and Carquest usually serve the pro shops and are most likely to have professional parts people, especially compared to the DIY chains Rock Auto commercials make fun of. Please substitute whatever store in your area has the most certified counter techs, not people who think a generator is a free standing, little power plant that runs on gasoline after a storm.

I’m not sure why you are trying to pick apart and misinterpret my posts. If I stepped on your toes, I am sorry, and if you are having a bad day, may it get better!

Please don't be offended. That is not my intention. I call it what the Ford Service Manual calls it.

RekeHavoc · Aug 10, 2020

So I picked up some of these GM junction blocks that @90sickfox recommended.

My plan is to run a cable directly from the battery to one of the blocks and move all of the smaller gauge OEM wires from the starter solenoid/relay to the block. I plan to leave the existing battery, alternator and starter cables on the solenoid/relay. Junction block and solenoid/relay will probably be tucked inside the fender.

I have a 3G alternator and mini-starter. I have the PA Performance 4 AWG alternator cable with 200A megafuse (not sure if this really needs to be 150A?). I have also added an extra ground cable from the engine block to the ECU ground point next to the battery.

I currently have a 4 AWG cable feeding a couple of small amps with plans to add Contour fans with a DCC controller. I would like to put these on the junction block also. What size cable/fuse should I use from the battery to the junction block? Could I use a circuit breaker instead of a fuse here?

90sickfox · Aug 10, 2020

You could use a circuit breaker. I used to use a 200amp breaker on my power cable running to a couple amps and some other stuff in my econoline van.

Sounds like you've done some stuff before. ( not a newbie ). You want that breaker as close to the battery as you can. That's not saying it has to be right on it....but the wire from the battery to the breaker could still pose an issue if the unfortunate happens.

If that alternator shorts out, or the power wire to it, that 200amp fuse will blow.

Those GM blocks are my favorite. They aren't like the cheap plastic junk on the interwebs.

Whatever you do make sure all your battery cables are copper...and not copper clad aluminum. The aluminum stuff corrodes faster and current doesn't flow through as easy.

RekeHavoc · Aug 11, 2020

Yeah, I wired up the 3G alt and starter several years ago. I recently added the stereo equipment which is using 4 AWG OFC cable. I never use CCA for anything. I am using the SSP battery cables. I believe it is 2 AWG from battery to solenoid/relay and 4 AWG for the others.

I like the idea of being able to essentially shut the car completely down with the breaker.

Would you use 2 AWG from the battery to the junction block although probably overkill?

Thanks for suggesting those blocks. They appear to be very heavy duty.

Noobz347 · Aug 11, 2020

RekeHavoc said:
Here is the 3G alternator that I currently have installed in the car. I believe it is 130A, but I can't remember. Is there any way to tell by looking at it?

I also have the PA Performance 4 AWG alternator wire kit. This came with a 200A megafuse which they state in their instructions not to change. Isn't this too large of a fuse? Shouldn't this be a 150A fuse for 4 AWG wire?

No, the 200A fuse is not too large. That fuse is there to protect against a direct short so that your alternator and electronics don't go "poof". Your 130A alternator is more than capable of delivering more than 200 amps. Your battery is capable of a lot more. Even if we consider the 130 theoretical cap of the alternator at 14 volts, then it will deliver 260 amps at 7 volts (this would be the aforementioned short).

That is what the fuse is there to prevent. It is only the "OMG, I am not designed to operate under these conditions" fuse.

7991LXnSHO said:
DIY chains Rock Auto commercials make fun of

Just as a side note: Rock Auto has no room to make fun of anyone.

90sickfox · Aug 11, 2020

I run the thickest wire I can. If you run 0/1 for your system you'll want the same size from battery to junction. Current flows like water in a pipe. The smallest ones have the highest resistance.

By the way...the copper battery ends ( sold in parts stores ) solder on cables great. I use a pair of vise grips and squeeze the sides where the bolt hole is. When they flatten them there is usually a gap on the edges. I just crimp them where the flat part starts. I position them on the floor with the vise grips so they sit up like a cup. Heat with torch and feed solder in there until it's a little more than halfway full. Keep the heat on it and insert the cable end. I've gotten to the point now where I cut the very end off with my dremel. Most of them have a flare where the wire gets inserted. Taking that flare off makes it look nice and smooth when the shrink tube gets put on. Makes it look professional. Rosin core works but the flux can and solid wire works the best.

RekeHavoc · Aug 11, 2020

I should have stated that I have not relocated my battery to the hatch. It is still in the factory location. I saw the pics of your setup in the other thread, but couldn't tell what size cables you or @Rdub6 are using. Do you think 2 AWG is sufficient or should I step up my game?

The cables that @Rdub6 got from BatteryCablesUSA look really nice.

Noobz347 · Aug 11, 2020

If you're not relocating, then it's not as necessary to go that big.

Longer cables are harder on everything and especially starters when they're already warm.

RekeHavoc · Aug 11, 2020

Noobz347 said:
If you're not relocating, then it's not as necessary to go that big.

Longer cables are harder of everything and especially starters when they're already warm.

Which brings me to another question I've always had. I know most people who have done the 3G alt upgrade typically route the charging cable along the radiator support. I've done the same, but it seems like a more direct route would follow the same path as the starter cable. Provided the cable is properly protected, this would be a better route, correct?

Noobz347 · Aug 11, 2020

RekeHavoc said:
Which brings me to another question I've always had. I know most people who have done the 3G alt upgrade typically route the charging cable along the radiator support. I've done the same, but it seems like a more direct route would follow the same path as the starter cable. Provided the cable is properly protected, this would be a better route, correct?

You can honestly, run any route that you feel is the most suitable. The only thing that [really] matters is that as your length increases, the gauge of your wire increases.

I would route it however best it is both, hidden and service accessible (particularly the fuse holder).

Noobz347 · Aug 11, 2020

Here is a nice simple formula/calculator for estimating length and gauge:

DIY Solar Power & Energy Storage Systems | altE

AltE Store

www.altestore.com

90sickfox · Aug 11, 2020

My cable runs across under the engine. I didn't route mine by the core support. The factory had to have a reason. Maybe noise in that wire can be transferred to the harness if it's too close ? Never heard of that but I'm no genius.

RekeHavoc · Aug 11, 2020

Shouldn't the main battery cable feeding the starter via the solenoid/relay also be fused? With the mini-starter, this cable will always be hot.

7991LXnSHO · Aug 11, 2020

Ideally, every circuit would have a fuse, breaker or fuseable link. In practice, this wire rarely has one, probably due to the large amount of current and not wanting any voltage drop to the starter.

A wrench hitting that terminal or the starting solenoid relay is a big reason to disconnect the battery before reaching under the hood.

RekeHavoc said:
Shouldn't the main battery cable feeding the starter via the solenoid/relay also be fused? With the mini-starter, this cable will always be hot.

Electrical Eliminate Starter Solenoid?

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