End of my rope!

[Cool Wheels]

Ok guys. I hate to say it but I think I need professional help! I really hate the idea of being at the mercy of someone doing a diagnostic for a problem I wish I could figure out

So here's how it is. I hope someone recognizes the problem...

Problem: Loud tapping to a metallic shrieking, varying in pitch with engine speed. Is most prominant when applying moderate to heavy acceleration from either a standstill or low speeds. Problem is less pronounced at medium speeds with heavy acceleration but is still there. There is no problem at high speeds. Only is evident when vehicle is in gear.

What I've tried: Removal of the starter and use of washers as shims between the starter and cover plate solves the problem, however, this leads to an unacceptable amount of noise due to them improper mesh synchronisation between the flywheel/starter teeth.
I've removed and reinstalled the starter about 50 times over the past few months, trying slight adjustments - all doomed to failure.
I've ground away "the cage" of the the starter (and F* I was so hopeful ) but it didn't work.
I've tried a smaller shim to reduce the noise - didn't work.
I cut down the armature of the starter and ground down the grease cup area where the armature rests in the nose, effectively shortening the depth of the starter, thinking that maybe that this was striking a balancing plate on the torque convertor - nope
I ground down the base of where the starter bolts up thinking that maybe the balancing weights on the flywheel were hitting - uhuh...
I removed the inspection plate and bent the cover plate outwards thinking that maybe the mounting was pushing the coverplate in towards the flywheel when it was all tightened up.
When I turn the flywheel manually with the inspection plate off, it looks like everything has good clearance.

So were should I go from here. I've got some gas and there are lots of cliffs around. Maybe a brick on the gas pedal and a final blaze of glory!?? That would suck since this is the first car I ever owned and I've put alot of hours into it.

Some ideas borne of desparation: Junk from old starter bendix stuck in gears? Maybe that's why the noise is louder at certain speeds, in different gears? Wrong flywheel or torque convertor for vehicle (engine is a Maverick 302 - tranny is a Mustang C4)
Somebody upstairs hates me?

Thanks to those of you who took the time to read this, even if you can't help me. I know, this is a really long post. Ciao!

 

[Dano78]

Man... that really sux. Sounds like you've pretty much covered all the bases. No the engine shouldn't make any difference, as they are all the same. Only thing left in the equation is the Torque converter itself. Or even the front pump in the tranny. I say this becaue you talk alot about the changes when vehicle speed changes rather than just the engine speed.

Sorry, best I can figure... I know its prectally impossible to easily isolate these two things...

May have to install a louder stereo and wait for the destruction..

 

[Mstng2]

Ok Ive got one more idea, Maybe you have tried it. Lift the rear end run the car and listen to the noise trying to isolate it without the road noise. You say removing the starter solves the problem?? Honestly sounds like the wrong starter. Many of the ford starters are only pinches off and cause goof nut problems like your describing. Wish you lived out here I'd help you in person. Real hard to do over the wire...

 

[Wart]

Sounds like a bad flex plate.

 

[jshcobra]

My bet is that the flex plate and/or torque converter are loose. Either that or the support ring wasn't installed on the flex plate when it was bolted to the crankshaft causing the flex plate holes to elongate or the plate to warp.

If the problem is interference with the starter nose cone, you'd see wear either on the starter or the flexplate, so I don't think that's your problem. Put a dial indicator against the plate and have a buddy spin the motor by hand. That will give you a reading as to runnout. I'm sure somebody here can tell you what the acceptable amount of runnout is.

 

[Wart]

Problem is many times a bad plate doesn't act consistantly. Different velocities and different loads will cause a different flexing. At a hand turned velocity it could be straight, and at an idle velocity it could warp.

Then theres the question of if the drain plug is in the plates hole for the plug. If not and it's been cinched down there will be real problems.

Then as has been mentioned some hardware may not be tight.

Sometimes it's easier and quicker to repair a problem, or at lest diagnose it, than it is to write about it.

 

[zwhitr]

TC nuts could be loose or maybe the flex plate bolts drop the tranny and check.

if you think its the starter paint the starter nose and install and run it then check for rub marks

also remove the belts and run it on jack stands in gear for a few short minutes it will overheat but it will give you a quiet environment.

 

[Wart]

also remove the belts and run it on jack stands in gear for a few short minutes it will overheat but it will give you a quiet environment.

I've been a little leery of telling people to put a vehicle on stands and run it. It's not really safe.

Doesn't stop me from doing it. I put the rear axle in the U of one set of stands, the front rails between the tits of another. I lift each end at lest once to make sure the stands aren't in a "bind".

After getting it up remove the inspection plate, start the engine and have someone run it through it's range while watching the plate. Told you it was dangerous. Don't be surprised if the plate does funny things.

 

[Cool Wheels]

ok I'll give this stuff a try. The reason I haven't tried dropping the tran is that I seem to remember it being a big P.I.T.A. We had to hold the engine on a hoist out partway and bolt up the tran before sliding it into position because all the bolts weren't accessable when the engine was mounted. And since I'm the "new guy in town", I haven't worked up any "buddy points" yet - like what you need to find a guy with a hoist, etc.

I'll try the inspection of the flexplate with the rear jacked up (carefully) first.

Thank for all the input - I'll spare it the flaming death plummet, for now...(but that would make a cool video but preferably with a honda civic or something )