endless problems... now intake or head gasket

rockin_rick

Member
Oct 9, 2003
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I've got this new engine together and it's ran about 4 hours and maybe 100 miles. Then, the other night, I was driving along 30 MPH, cruising home. The car started to run rough, sputtery, and with little power. My WB O2 sensor went from a nice closed loop A/F ratio of mid 14's reading to 15-18. I happened to be datalogging with the tweecer at the time and had the laptop on and monitoring. LAMBSE followed the lean reading NB O2's and went to 10-12ish. I thought it may have been my stock O2's freaking out (as I've had issues with them, too) so I switched the tune over to a full time open loop setup. I just happened to have that programmed into the tweecer. Didn't help. Still rough and the WB was still at 15-16ish (sometimes to 18) even though LAMBSE was at 13-14. I've ran the car before in full time open loop so I know that the actual A/F ratio will follow LAMBSE pretty well.

The car is also hard to start, and idles like crap now. I pulled the side of the edel. performer's upper intake and seen the light brown oil we all dread (see pic). I drained the oil and it actually looks pretty good, but you can just tell that there is some coolant in there, but it is still dark brown. I was able to drain out about 4 quarts, so there is not excessive coolant in there. I'm guessing that it is a upper intake gasket leaking coolant into the lifter valley and getting sucked up into the intake making the oil in the intake look very white, since it is so concentrated right near the PCV valve. :shrug: Maybe that's why the oil in the pan wasn't very white (or light brown).

It also seems that I have a vac leak since I'm running lean. It seems that both banks are lean, as the WB is in the pass bank, and the drivers bank NB O2 sensor was stuck dead lean while driving it that way. Usually it's dead rich while in open loop. So it seems that both banks are getting excess air. What does this mean (as to what my problem is)? :shrug: Could just one side intake gasket cause this effect?

Does this seem like common symptoms to either a intake or head gasket leak? I've been mainly gentle with the car since it has a new motor, and the motor has never been over 4000 RPMs (due to tweecer).

Thanks,
Rick
 

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definently something wrong with the cooling system. my money is that it ISNT a head gasket. the overheating of your car at an extreme rate is the first sign of a blown head gasket. also, when a head gasket is blown, the color of burned antifreeze coming from your tailpipes would be a sight for sore eyes. in a way, you can sleep easier, but not that much easier.
 
Looks like the ports on the Right are the problem cylinders...the Left is nice and Black or normal...she's definately getting water somewhere...
Damn...time to pull the lower.... :bang:
How do the plugs look on the cylinders those wet ports belong to???
 
I'm thinking that it is sucking it up through the PCV and coming out the hole right there in the plenum. The rear ports had a slight coating of this oil mix while the fronts did not. I'm guessing that it's from the oil coming into the intake at that rear hole and thus getting sucked up into the nearest runners, which happen to be the rears. The oil I drained was had much less concentration of coolant, as it was much darker in color. Perhaps the intake gasket is leaking into the lifter valley and causing a higher localized concentration (lighter brown) then what the rest of the oil was.

Do you think that the oil mix is coming up the runners in reverse?

The plugs did not match, though. I put new plugs in after I got it home. I then ran it about 5 minutes since, and then I pulled those new ones out today. Cyl. #1,2,3,6,7,8 were wet while the other 2 were pretty much dry. 4 was dry, and I think that it was either 5 or 6 was also.

Does this sound more like a intake gasket or head gasket?

When I installed the intake gasket (Felpro 1250) I used spray permatex copper adhesive sealant (http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=137949&prmenbr=361 ) on the gasket-to-head side of the gasket. Used 4 studs in the corners to line everything up. Put on gasket, and half tighened some of the intake bolts to hold the gasket in place until it drys. I let it dry for about 20 hours, then took off the intake and trimmed the water ports on the gasket. Didn't trim the intake ports. Didn't apply any RTV (mistake?). They are the Print-o-seal gasket. Then put on the intake and tighened the intake down to 5, then 8, then 10, then 15, then 20. After running for 30 mins, I retorqued everything. Heads, intake (down to about 10 then), etc. Was fine, ran for a couple hours. Rocker came loose, wedged a pushrod in the head slightly bending it. Had to use vice-grips to pull it out. Could this have tweaked stuff enough to cause problems? Fixed that. Retorqued intake, down to about 13 that time. Ran for a couple more hours, then this happened. :shrug:

Rick
 
The chocolate milk colored stuff in your intake is a sign of oil and coolant mixing. Looks to be coming from 5,6,7,8 runners. Do a compression test tomorrow. If the lower intake did not seat there would be leaking by the PCV (back) or dripping onto the timing cover (front). The fact coolant is getting up this far means there is a bigger problem. Coolant will foul out spark plugs. When I blew my head gasket 7 and 8 fouled out quickly.
 
So do you think that the oil mix is coming up the runners in reverse, or up through the PCV into the intake?

I have no external intake leaks - used the felpro blue rubber ends.

Rick
 
The blue rubber ends suck but if they were leaking oil would be running out where they go. By that picture clearly oil and coolant is mixing which is making that coffee looking liquid right above the PCV connection line. It must be getting sucked up. I would do a compression test first thing. This is an internal issue. Coolant in the cylinder walls equals damage.