Engine build-up suggestions

Yellwstang21 · Dec 29, 2004

Hey guys, I currently have a 302 engine with most of the basic mods as I have stated before. This is not a question as to what I should do to this engine, instead, it is about a new engine. I want to be able to still drive my mustang and then drop the new engine in when finished so there is no down time, etc.

So, here it goes... basically I have a $4000-$6000 loan (at least $4000 and can get up to $6000) worked out. I am going to use this to build an engine or buy a crate motor, I have not decided.

And thats where you all come in, what are the pros/cons of going each way. Obviously a crate motor is built by someone else so it can take away from the ways I can screw it up. I was also thinking about maybe a short block and adding other stuff onto it (heads,intake,ect). Im not sure.

Any suggestions as to which crate you would suggest or maybe even parts to use if doing a full build up by myself. By the way, I want to have atleast 350hp but it doesnt have to be. Also strokers are not out of the question either. The motor will be mainly street with occasional strip.

I have a t-5, 3.73 in the rear, dual exhaust with x-pipe, flowmasters, and hooker headers. I also have a Edelbrock performer 289 intake and 600cfm carb but those do not necessarily need to be used in my application.

Thanks in advance for any help.

hrspwrjunkie · Dec 29, 2004

Well, that sounds like a fun project.

If you're looking for an honest 350 hp in a daily driver-type application, a 302 will work with some caveats.

Is this going to be a roller cam engine? If so, here's a combo that will idle and pull like a mother:

650 cfm Demon
Edelbrock Performer RPM or RPM air gap (if you live in a warm climate area)
AFR 165s
Comp Cams XE266HR Camshaft w/1.6 roller rockers, also available from Comp in an adjustable pedestal mount (which are really easy to deal with but are a bit on the pricey side)
1 5/8" primary headers, which it sounds like you already have
A good exhaust, which, again, it sounds like you already have.

I've seen this combo on a 5.0 w/10:1 compression make 396 horses at 6000 RPM while idling and providing a very wide useable power band (1500-6500). Once you add accessories, your probably looking at about 350-375 at the flywheel. Your car won't be geared for the quarter with this combination and 3.73s, but it will be a hoot to drive!

Of course, I can't stress enough having the combination tuned in correctly. That's worth as much or more than the parts by themselves.

Yellwstang21 said:
Hey guys, I currently have a 302 engine with most of the basic mods as I have stated before. This is not a question as to what I should do to this engine, instead, it is about a new engine. I want to be able to still drive my mustang and then drop the new engine in when finished so there is no down time, etc.

So, here it goes... basically I have a $4000-$6000 loan (at least $4000 and can get up to $6000) worked out. I am going to use this to build an engine or buy a crate motor, I have not decided.

And thats where you all come in, what are the pros/cons of going each way. Obviously a crate motor is built by someone else so it can take away from the ways I can screw it up. I was also thinking about maybe a short block and adding other stuff onto it (heads,intake,ect). Im not sure.

Any suggestions as to which crate you would suggest or maybe even parts to use if doing a full build up by myself. By the way, I want to have atleast 350hp but it doesnt have to be. Also strokers are not out of the question either. The motor will be mainly street with occasional strip.

I have a t-5, 3.73 in the rear, dual exhaust with x-pipe, flowmasters, and hooker headers. I also have a Edelbrock performer 289 intake and 600cfm carb but those do not necessarily need to be used in my application.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Yellwstang21 · Dec 29, 2004

If its anything, I live in Tucson, AZ.

I dont know if it will be a roller block my options are whatever puts me in that HP with the $ i can spend.

WHy do you say that my car wont be geared for the 1/4...

As I have said before I am a novice when it comes to building up cars (19yrs old) and need plenty of help and guidence which is why I come here. I do know people that can help me build the engine if I have the parts as well.

By the way what is the cost of the set-up you suggested? And for the 350-375hp at the flywheel that you suggest, what would that equal to the ground approx? I dont know the ratio used to figure that out....
Thanks again

Yellwstang21 · Dec 30, 2004

Does anyone not really have any other suggestions on making 350+hp with $4-$6000? Would blowing it or anything like that be a decent option or no? I basically want to make my car a low to mid 13second car if possible with that price range.

66P51GT · Dec 30, 2004

You can easily do 350 HP with a Holley Systemax or Edelbrock Performer or Performer RPM power packages. These kits include cam, lifters, intake, heads, and gaskets necessary for the install for about $2,500. 345HP GT-40 crate motors are available from Summit for $3,200.

You can also bolt on a supercharger from Holley or Paxton and still have cash in pocket.

On the upper end of the scale, you can get a turn-key motor (less distributor and carb) from FPS for $5,899 (485HP 347). http://www.f-p-s.com/engines/crate_motors.html but this would require you to rethink your drivetrain.

jeffnoel · Dec 30, 2004

Go for a Coast High Perfomane 347 stroker motor.

http://www.coasthigh.com/Assemblies/Ford/ford_347.htm

RED92VERT · Dec 30, 2004

Id get a ford racing crate motor. Ive seen to many horror storys with crate engine builders. Ive never heard of a prob with a ford crate motor. They might not make as much HP for the price but i could live with 20 less hp for a motor that will last 100k + miles.

http://buyfordracing.com/Shop_Cart/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=23&cat=Engines

The Dan · Dec 30, 2004

If you want a real ground pounder and still some streetability I would say go with a FRPP 347 Short Block, add heads,cam, intake and carb of your chioce. Depending on how you built it you could realisticly put 450hp to the flywheel. You could build this for around 5K with quality stuff. The forged FRPP 347 is only about 3,200. I think CHP short blocks may even be less, just depends on who you feel more comfy with.

Yellwstang21 · Dec 31, 2004

wow haha a lot of suggestions now.... thats what I was looking for. WHy do you say I might have to rethinkg my drivetrain for some, do they have too much power for it to handle?

Say i was to buy a 347 or 331 FRPP crate motor and put on AFR 165-185 heads.... how do I know which cam,intake( RPM?) and Carb would I go with?

66P51GT · Dec 31, 2004

Yellwstang21 said:
Why do you say I might have to rethinkg my drivetrain for some, do they have too much power for it to handle?

Exactly. Depending on how you drive the car, the tranny and rearend will take some serious abuse with the added cubes and power output of a stroker. Traction is really the key and also a balancing act on how much power you can transmit to the road. Sticky tires with a high torque engine requires a solid drivetrain. If you use average tires with the high-torque engine, then the extra power is a waste since you can't transmit the power to the road anyway.

The T5Z tranny is rated at 330 lbs. of torque. All other T5s are rated less. An 8" rear will be tapped out at about ~350 lbs. of torque. This is assuming you have a 4-Spider traction lock differential. I'm not saying you can't use these without success. What I am saying is these components will fail faster with the more power you throw at them. I'm using a T5Z and 8" 3.80 4-Spider Traction Loc in my build. I will be pushing near 400HP on on the motor. The car is built for autocross and road racing with occassional trips to the 1/4.

Bottom line... if you bump up to a stroker and plan on visiting the 1/4 and dumping clutches at 4,000+ RPM with drag radials or slicks, you will definitely need a beefier tranny and rear end than what you currently have specified.

Agent Orange · Dec 31, 2004

Yellwstang21 said:
I have a $4000-$6000 loan (at least $4000 and can get up to $6000)

what are the pros/cons of going each way.

I want to have atleast 350hp QUOTE]

WHere do I start?

- 350hp at the flywheel is a very achievable goal in that price range - it is the equivalent of about 290hp at the rear wheels.

- you're taking just as much of a chance with a crate engine as if you built it yourself...maybe more so.

- The ford racing longblocks are over-priced, under-quality, and over-rated in hp. A good alternative is the $1200 Ford Racing shortblock as it will allow you to use quality parts (ARP bolts, roller rockers, etc.) and build to your own liking

It's your money, but with AFR165 heads and a mild cam with the right engine combo you will be at 300 rwhp and have a healthy 302 that is both reliable and fuel-efficent.

For reference sake, I built a 302 EFI engine from scratch and spent about 4500 using all ARP hardware and Trickflow heads with GT40 intake and the output was 280rwhp.

66P51GT · Dec 31, 2004

Another suggestion to keep it on the cheap is to search the message boards. The Corral has one of the most active Windsor engine classifieds I've seen. http://www.corral.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=269

If you are in SoCal, use http://www.recycler.com/ for just about anything.

Some of the deals I've found:
T5Z, Lakwood Scattershield, SFI Flywheel, Centerforce Clutch, Aluminum Driveshaft, B&M Shifter $1,100 (Shipped)

All New Parts including 5.0 Block, Crane 2031 Cam, Carrillo Rods, Speed Pro Racing Pistons, ARP Main and Head Studs, Nodular Crank, Ported Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, Comp Cams 7/16 Studs and Guide Plates, $2,200 (Local)

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