Engine POLL

smokin joe · Oct 1, 2011

I don't dream in the "unlimited budget" category. With that being said here is what I would do......If I were to do a swap now, it would be a 5.0 Coyote. Twice the HP my 93 was rated at stock and the same or better mileage. That sounds like a win to me.

Boosted92LX · Oct 2, 2011

Unlimited budget. Don't people with this buy supercars and not fox mustangs?

85_SS_302_Coupe · Oct 2, 2011

SSeater said:
Unlimited budget. Don't people with this buy supercars and not fox mustangs?

If that were the case, the Barret Jackson auction wouldn't exist and i could go out and buy a nice '67 Shelby GT500 for a reasonable used car price.

Boosted92LX · Oct 2, 2011

Fox mustang NOT = to 67 GT 500....

85_SS_302_Coupe · Oct 2, 2011

I'm just saying, there are plenty of rich people with unlimited budgets who aren't out buying supercars, they're buying musclecars. In my book, as far as performance goes, a GT500 doesn't have anything over on a modded Fox. We're not talking about rareness or value or any of that in this thread, we're talking engine swaps and performance.

NIKwoaC · Oct 2, 2011

Adams91LX said:
So it would make more power? I just don't know why you would want a Turbo 2.3 over any V8.

Eh, ease up on Mike. Besides, have you never heard of John Huber's turbo 4 Fox? Built right and with enough boost, anything can be fast.

Gearbanger 101 said:
I like the idea of copious amount of big block power and torque, but the price is high. Don't count on a smooth 700RPM idle, or seeing more than single digit fuel mileage out of anything with 500+ cid capable of 600hp.

That's just a stereotype, though. With a mild HR cam and a stand alone EFI, you could definitely get a BBF to be very drivable and have *decent* fuel mileage. You've gotta realize that a big part of what makes the Coyote perform as well as it does is the complex EFI system Ford has developed for it. A BBF may not have the fancy piston cooling oil jets or the nice TiVVT DOHC setup, but with a good aftermarket EFI setup and some knowledgeable tuning, I think you could achieve some pretty decent street manners.

Gearbanger 101 said:
Let's not also forget...the 5.0L Coyote is by far the lightest of the V8 engine suggestions made yet. Hell, it's a lighter engine than the 302 OHV it replaces. That'd make for a pretty decent corner carver and very nimble daily driver.

Yea, the Coyote is obviously going to beat out a BBF in the weight department. But hey, the AC Cobra seemed to handle pretty well with a BBF between the front wheels... A BBF Fox doesn't necessarily have to be straight line only.

Boosted92LX · Oct 2, 2011

NikwoaC said:
That's just a stereotype, though. With a mild HR cam and a stand alone EFI, you could definitely get a BBF to be very drivable and have *decent* fuel mileage. You've gotta realize that a big part of what makes the Coyote perform as well as it does is the complex EFI system Ford has developed for it. A BBF may not have the fancy piston cooling oil jets or the nice TiVVT DOHC setup, but with a good aftermarket EFI setup and some knowledgeable tuning, I think you could achieve some pretty decent street manners.

The complex cam timing and fuel system is part of it, Nik. I think what most people overlook about the coyote though is the 11:1 compression ratio. This is where the power is coming from. Every thing else is just there to make the coyote's manners tolerable. Before all of these complex systems, 11:1 CR was unthinkable for a pump gas engine, much less a production engine with a warranty.

I'll have to admit when I first read that Ford had to push the CR to 11:1 to get that power I was very, very skeptical as to the longevity of the engine. It is touted as the 25 mpg 400 hp 100k mile engine, but the truth is, dyno torture tests or not, how many coyotes are out there that have actually hit 100k miles yet? None that I know of.

As close to the ragged edge as these engines are pushed by the factory, I doubt with any aftermarket mods they'll actually be the reliable miracle motor everyone has tagged them to be. Don't get me wrong, they are an awesome mill, but I think you can only squeeze so much blood from a five liter turnip before something has to give.

They are already chewing up #8 piston rings with just a tune:http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/845952-no-more-2011-mustang.html

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 2, 2011

You guys can't possibly be under the impression that the Coyote is making a full 100hp more than the outgoing 4.6L 3V because of a couple of points in compression, do you? If it were that easy, we'd all be running high compression pistons in our engines.

The heads on the Coyote are the best flowing/performing factory offerings added to a Mustang in 40-years. They outperform the GT500 castings right out of the box. And that fancy TiVCT timing system is a modern marvel. It's like having half a dozen different cam grinds all working in harmony at the same time and combined with the oil cooled pistons, is what allows the use of 11:1 compression ratio....and with regular pump gas to boot. Try pulling that off with anything else in Ford Garage.

And let's not forget....a lot of that fuel mileage comes from its reserved displacement. It's a lot easier to feed a cylinder displacing 38ci than it is one displacing 50-60ci +. Speculate all you wish about aftermarket EFI big block EFI systems, the fact remains that you've still got to feed 8-hungry cylinders. You're either going to get a dud with lots of low end torque, but sub par performance levels that gets lousy mileage, or a complete animal with power o plenty at all RPM that gets really lousy gas mileage. If the mid-70's taught us anything, it's that taming a big block V8 down to retain reasonable fuel and emmisions levels still leaves you with a portly hard on gas engine, that won't come anywhere near performing to it's potential levels. Dont' believe me....that's fine. Show me one example of a big block, gasoline burning engine that makes gobs of horsepower and torque and knocks out even half the mileage that the 5.0L TiVCT does.

You want to dream....imagine what a big block engine with all the modern offerings of the TiVCT 5.0L would be like. Now THAT, would be simply amazing!!!

Oh....and Nic, the AC 427 Cobra's were great handlers for sure.....but I'm sure it had something to do with the 1,600lb shell the engine was transplanted into, more than the fact that it had a 427 under the bonnet. Besides...as well as the old AC 427 Cobra's handles....the AC 289's handle that much better.

90lxcoupe · Oct 2, 2011

SSeater said:
Fox mustang NOT = to 67 GT 500....

You are correct, a fox body is BETTER.

I'd do either a 351w or a LSx swap, the windsor would probably win at this moment because i have alot of money into ford parts. If i was starting from a clean slate, i would go with the LS swap though.

If i had unlimited money i would be calling proline and ordering a 670" all billet motor with twin promod 94mm turbos and go race ODR, or id build a 400"+ small block and put a snout mounted F-1r on it and go race x275

1bad67sbf · Oct 2, 2011

90lxcoupe said:
You are correct, a fox body is BETTER.

LOL, wow. you are telling me somone puts a modded 67 gt500kr and a modded fox in front of you, you are going to take the fox?

90lxcoupe · Oct 2, 2011

1bad67sbf said:
LOL, wow. you are telling me somone puts a modded 67 gt500kr and a modded fox in front of you, you are going to take the fox?

Whoever modifys a true 67 GT500 KR is a far dumber person that me. If i was given a 67 GT500, i would take that directly to a high end auction and sell it, then build 4 cars that i could actually drive without the fear of defacing the value of them. The fox body notchback to me, is the coolest car ever made, i would never want to own a car that i would be afraid to change a radiator hose clamp on because the factory one makes it more valuable. 95% of people that own the old shelby's have garage queens because a rock chip or a scrathc is going to make them cry.

I would build a 65 or 66 coupe too, rather have that than a GT500. It makes no nevermind to me that i have a car that is 1 of 563 made that is blue with a 4 speed with white bucket seats blah blah blah. I prefer to build my stuff one of a kind, not what the factory did 45 years ago.

1bad67sbf · Oct 2, 2011

have you ever seen the edelbrock track car mustang on power block tv?
i would not understand taking any fox mustang over a 67-68 built to the specs they did that car.
i know very few real gt500kr's get modded, it was just a comparison

1bad67sbf · Oct 2, 2011

90lxcoupe · Oct 2, 2011

1bad67sbf said:
have you ever seen the edelbrock track car mustang on power block tv?
i would not understand taking any fox mustang over a 67-68 built to the specs they did that car.
i know very few real gt500kr's get modded, it was just a comparison

Fox bodies are cooler than old mustangs to me, i grew up in them, my mom drove an 86 convertible from when was 5 till i was about 15, i took that car when i was 16, then crashed it at 17, then i bought a 1990 GT, sold that a year later and 6 months after that i bought my notchback. Now its 8 years later and i never realized it until now but in the last 21 years of my life there have only been 6 months of it where i did not have a fox body in the driveway. So im attached to these cars and its very rare that i see a older mustang at a car show that really gets my attention. Like i said before the the fox body notchback is the coolest car in the world to me, sorry you dont get it.

Not to mention the aftermarket support for the fox bodies VS any other year mustang period. The fact that it is the best platform period(and most economical) to make a racecar out of.

foxbodymike87 · Oct 2, 2011

90lxcoupe said:
Fox bodies are cooler than old mustangs to me, i grew up in them, my mom drove an 86 convertible from when was 5 till i was about 15, i took that car when i was 16, then crashed it at 17, then i bought a 1990 GT, sold that a year later and 6 months after that i bought my notchback. Now its 8 years later and i never realized it until now but in the last 21 years of my life there have only been 6 months of it where i did not have a fox body in the driveway. So im attached to these cars and its very rare that i see a older mustang at a car show that really gets my attention. Like i said before the the fox body notchback is the coolest car in the world to me, sorry you dont get it.

Not to mention the aftermarket support for the fox bodies VS any other year mustang period. The fact that it is the best platform period(and most economical) to make a racecar out of.

agree 110%..put a 67 gt500 or 2012 super snake next to a fox and ill take the fox.

NIKwoaC · Oct 2, 2011

90lxcoupe said:
If i was given a 67 GT500, i would take that directly to a high end auction and sell it, then build 4 cars that i could actually drive without the fear of defacing the value of them.

I've been saying this for years, and all my friends tell me I'm nuts. If tomorrow you gave me a $100K "collector car", I'd turn around and sell it and dump $50K into two cars, build them from scratch, and drive the piss out of them.

1bad67sbf · Oct 2, 2011

foxbodymike87 said:
agree 110%..put a 67 gt500 or 2012 super snake next to a fox and ill take the fox.

lol, your the one who wants to sell your fox to get an evo

foxbodymike87 · Oct 2, 2011

1bad67sbf said:
lol, your the one who wants to sell your fox to get an evo

because i cant afford to vehicles...in the future im going to get another fox one way or another

Boss 351 · Oct 3, 2011

Pushrods are great but 400hp N/A, runs smooth and 30MPG? Why would I go with a 351, other than nostalgia or budget?

If I won a $50m jackpot, I'd own a few fox Mustangs for sure. I don't like the typical super car anyway.

85_SS_302_Coupe · Oct 3, 2011

NikwoaC said:
I've been saying this for years, and all my friends tell me I'm nuts. If tomorrow you gave me a $100K "collector car", I'd turn around and sell it and dump $50K into two cars, build them from scratch, and drive the piss out of them.

Yep. I'd take that money and find a decent fastback and do a reasonable restoration, nothing crazy show car quality, just make it straight and run great and i'd be happier driving the hell out of that than owning a rare collector car that i'd feel guilty for driving. I love Boss 429s but in reality i'd sooner build a clone than own the real thing.

And i keep hearing people say 30mpg with the Coyote? What are you guys smoking? They're rated at 24 in the '11 GT, and even being lighter i don't think you'd knock down 30mpg in a Fox unless you ran 2.73 gears and babied it.

Engine POLL

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Coyote

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It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

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