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Engine "rattle"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lost Time
  • Start date Start date Jan 29, 2007
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Lost Time

New Member
Oct 5, 2006
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Jan 29, 2007
#1
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #1
Car is a '99 GT with 120k on it. Auto tranny.

The car since purchased, about 6mos ago, has a pretty loud rattling sound coming from what appears to be the center of the motor. It does it both when cold and when warmed-up. It only does it between 1500 and 3000k rpms. It will do it while moving, or at a dead standstill when just revving the motor.

It sounds like a metallic rattling coming from right in the middle of the motor. You can hear it from under the car, although it's not quite as loud. And it is equally loud from both sides of the motor, left and right. I've thought maybe it was something loose in one of the cats, I've I've considered some kind of pre-ignition. I've tried running 93 octane to no avail.

Oddly enough, when driving, you can hear it very clearly at part or neutral throttle, but as soon as you accelerate, the sound disappears. It is also absent under deceleration. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

I'm running out of ideas. I've heard of some kind of intake cracking, but it sounds more like metallic rattling than plastic. Maybe an exhaust manifold crack somewhere?

Also, and this may be completely unrelated, if you rev the motor from the throttle body with your head under the hood, if you open the thottle sharply from idle, you can hear a "whoosh" intake sucking from somewhere toward the rear of the motor. It has a K&N intake, so that may just be normal intake noise, but it sounds like a substantial sucking sound. Again, may be completely unrelated.
 

DCjuggalo

Member
May 18, 2003
169
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16
Charlotte, NC
Jan 29, 2007
#2
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #2
someone needs to find out what this noise is.. lol ive seen so many threads on it
 

RedDaemon

10 Year Member
Mar 31, 2005
3,470
9
108
Atlanta, GA
Jan 29, 2007
#3
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #3
check ur plugs to see if theyre not loose?
 

sgarlic

Founding Member
Apr 21, 2001
3,085
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56
Jan 29, 2007
#4
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #4
I can't remember but do our exhaust manifolds have heat shields on them? Perhaps one of those is rattling?
 
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Lost Time

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Oct 5, 2006
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#5
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #5
Just got back from the local Mustang experts. After listening to it for all of 2 secs, they diagnosed it as a bad wrist pin. Lovely.

Anyone want to buy a '99 GT Auto with an immaculate body and motor in need of a rebuild?
 

sgarlic

Founding Member
Apr 21, 2001
3,085
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56
Jan 29, 2007
#6
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #6
Maybe, how much? It'd be simple and less than a few grand to swap a low mileage 4v in there..
 
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Lost Time

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Oct 5, 2006
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#7
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #7
That's about what I figured. ~$2k for a new/used motor swap. So, figure $2k off average retail for it.

So......according to NADA, avg retail is $7925. So $5925 as-is?
 

RedDaemon

10 Year Member
Mar 31, 2005
3,470
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Jan 29, 2007
#8
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #8
why not go to another shop first to get a second opinion before u sell it?
 
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Lost Time

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#9
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #9
I never really intended to keep the car all that long. I bought it with the intention if letting my wife drive it until a leased car was ready to be turned in (she put too many miles on the lease). I'm only about 4 months earlier than what I planned.

As far as the second opinion goes, a rod was kinda what I figured all along, and the place I took it to wasn't trying to sell me anything. I know the guy there and he just looked at it as a favor. He didn't even offer to rebuild or replace it, just gave me the news.

It's a great car that will make someone very happy. Someone who is willing to put the time and energy into it. The car is bone-stock and the body is perfect. So, someone will get a deal and have a car they can have fun working on and building-up if they choose.
 

whyask

New Member
Apr 4, 2005
735
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Sacramento
Jan 29, 2007
#10
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #10
I sense the forum gods coming soon...

"THIS BELONGS IN THE CLASSIFIED SECTION".......
 

LaserRed01GT

Banned
Oct 3, 2006
739
3
0
Clearwater, FL
Jan 29, 2007
#11
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #11
I'd like to know how they determined it was a bad wrist pin. Determining that finitely is an involved process. You would be surprised how many cars I’ve seen that someone came in and said that another shop told them they had a rod knock and it ended up really being a bad alternator bearing, a vacuum leak creating audible detonation, or something simple in the valvetrain. They should have removed the serpentine belt first to rule out any accessory problems and to make it easier to listen with the stethoscope. Then they should have used a good stethoscope to listen to each part of the motor. Then they should have cancelled out each cylinder by unplugging each cylinder’s injector. If the sound changed when a particular cylinder’s injector was removed, then it likely that is a reciprocating part in the bottom end rather than a rotating part in the bottom end. Rod knocks usually are very loud over 2500-3000 RPM’s and make a single knock per stroke. Wrist pin noise usually makes a double knocking sound whenever the piston approaches TDC and then quickly reverses back down.

I would definitely take it somewhere else for a second opinion. We have full floating wrist (piston) pins and it is pretty rare for them to fail on an otherwise stock motor.
 
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VIRstang

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Jan 3, 2007
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Cary, North Carolina
Jan 29, 2007
#12
  • Jan 29, 2007
  • #12
nice post LaserRed01GT!

I just bought my 99 Black GT for $2200 because the kid thought he had a blown motor. He's mechanic buddy told him that he either had a blown head gasket or a cracked block just because the kid saw white smoke out the back when he punched it while he was running down the highway. For some reason he figured on the worst case scenerio. It turned out to be a bad water pump. His loss!
 

kid rock

New Member
Jan 24, 2006
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THE 51ST STATE!!
Jan 30, 2007
#13
  • Jan 30, 2007
  • #13
VIRstang said:
nice post LaserRed01GT!

I just bought my 99 Black GT for $2200 because the kid thought he had a blown motor. He's mechanic buddy told him that he either had a blown head gasket or a cracked block just because the kid saw white smoke out the back when he punched it while he was running down the highway. For some reason he figured on the worst case scenerio. It turned out to be a bad water pump. His loss!
Click to expand...



OMG! $2200???? thats like £1200! that is VERY VERY cheap! wanna sell? lol
 
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VIRstang

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Jan 3, 2007
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Jan 30, 2007
#14
  • Jan 30, 2007
  • #14
Thanks! But I think I will keep it. Since I got it so cheap I can afford to put a little money into it. ;>)
 
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Lost Time

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Oct 5, 2006
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Jan 30, 2007
#15
  • Jan 30, 2007
  • #15
That is very good advice and info, LaserRed01GT.

I guess there is no harm in letting another place give it a looksie, but I feel pretty confident in the ones who already assessed it. But I'll give someone else a clean slate and see what they say.
 
C

cooter_11

Member
Apr 22, 2005
138
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16
GA
Jan 30, 2007
#16
  • Jan 30, 2007
  • #16
I had the same problem. I just tightened my X-pipe to my headers and it went away. I'd think something a little more simple like that before you go balls deep into a new engine.
 

Rickey_Bobby

New Member
Nov 8, 2006
332
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0
Sarasota, FL
Jan 30, 2007
#17
  • Jan 30, 2007
  • #17
Start saving $$, and drive it till it stops running. By the time it dies, you should have enough green to drop in a new bottom end (if that is really your problem)

My car makes so many noises that make me worry. If I drive without the stereo up I start paying attention to them all and go into "what if" mode. What if I gapped that last ring wrong?.... What if I have a boost leak?... What if my tranny is going?... Did I tighten my lugs?...

It really will drive you nuts if you start picking out everything you hear. All the worrying in the world wont keep a car together.

Don't waste too much time and money looking for a problem that isnt causing any noticable drivability problems.


..Turn up the radio...
 
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Lost Time

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Oct 5, 2006
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Jan 31, 2007
#18
  • Jan 31, 2007
  • #18
I agree with what you're saying Rickey. In fact, with the radio up, you can't hear a damn thing amiss.

I did change the oil yesterday and used a slightly thicker 10w40. The slow-speed knock that was there at idle is now gone until the oil really heats up. Then it returns, but it takes a while. The 1500-3000rpm rattle is definitely still there. I went around the engine disconnecting injectors one by one, and with the exception of the two under the trottle body I really couldn't reach easily, the other 6 did nothing. No change in the rattle.

If it didn't sound like it was coming from right in the center of the motor, I'd honestly believe it was a heatshield or part of the exhaust. But from walking and crawling all around the motor, it sounds like it's coming from the bottom end.
 

COramprat

...I can take it. I think.
20+ Year Stangneter
Mar 2, 2003
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Sea of Tranquility
Jan 31, 2007
#19
  • Jan 31, 2007
  • #19
Is it a knock or a clackity sound?

Noises on these things can seem to come from one place but is actually in another.

If you want do the poor mans stethoscope and see if it is coming from the vlave covers. Just take a long screwdriver and touch the business end in various places on the cover while pressing your ear to the handle. Simple way to figure if you have valve train trouble.
 
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Lost Time

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Oct 5, 2006
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#20
  • Jan 31, 2007
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Well, to be honest, it almost sounds like two different sounds. The low speed knock at idle, sounds like it's coming from the oil pan. The higher speed rattle is so hard to describe. Inside the car it sounds like a light metal rattle, under the hood it sounds like something more substantial. But it only happens when you float the throttle between 1500 and 3000rpms, and the noise doesn't speed up or slow down in that range. It's just there. Like a heatshield resonating. It just gets louder the closer to the 3k rpm you get, and then any higher in the rpm range and it disappears.

It does not do it under load. It does not do it while accelerating OR decelerating. Only at neutral throttle or very lightly accelerating. The fact that the frequency doesn't change with the rpms makes me believe it's not a reciprocating part, but the description of a rod knock really hits the nail on the head.

Oh, and "clackity" is a better description of the higher rpm sound.
 
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