f303 0r b303 camshaft ?

[rickspony]

Hey that x-303 sounded wicked, very mean and agressive sounding cam definetly more agressive sounding than my b-303 with 1.72,s Might have to think about that one. Does anyone have a z-303 cam?

 

[1990blackgt]

DAMN GEARHD6!!!! YOUR CAR SOUNDS AWESOME!!!! I JUST WATCHED YOUR VID LIKE 10 TIMES...

 

[tjm73]

The X303 and the B303 camshafts have the EXACT same timing events. The ONLY difference is the lift.

The B303 is ground with .300" lift at the cam on both the intake and the exhaust.

The X303 is ground with .339" lift on both the intake and the exhaust.

The TrickFow Stage 1 camshaft is within +/- 2 degrees at all 4 timing points with .312"/.319" lift on the intake/exhaust respectively.

The only unknown is the actual lobe shape. It could be different, but propably isn't that much different.

So for all intents and purposes the 3 cams are nearly identical except for lift. The TF1 is nice because it has a little extra exhaust lift built in which helps since Ford heads need a little extra on the exhaust usually.

This also means they will all sound very similar.

I've seen people post that the B303 is crap and then in the same post rave about the TF1. They're pretty much the same cam.

A friend of mine had a B303 cammed 302 crate engine in a Ranger with a carb and had it tuned so it would idle down to about 650-700rpm. Sounded even better than the X303 video posted below.

 

[795.0pacecar]

I've seen people post that the B303 is crap and then in the same post rave about the TF1. They're pretty much the same cam.

You cant base this statement on the lift alone.

B cam
Advertised duration: intake:284, Exhaust:284
Lobe separation 107º
Lift (with 1.6 rocker ratio): intake .480, exhaust: .480


TFS1 cam,
Advertised duration: intake:275, Exhaust:279
Lobe separation 112º
Lift (with 1.6 rocker ratio): intake .499, exhaust: .510




I don't know about you, but I think these cams have very different specs.

 

[tjm73]

I don't know about you, but I think these cams have very different specs.

Maybe you should go read the specs before making such statements.

FRPP B303 Camshaft.......
Intake Open: 5 Degrees BTDC
Intake Close: 39 Degrees ABDC
Exhaust Open: 49 Degrees BBDC
Exhaust Close: 5 Degrees BTDC
Advertised Duration: 284/284 Degrees
Duration @ .050": 224/224 Degrees
Lobe Center Intake: 107 Degrees
Lobe Center Exhaust: 117 Degrees
Lobe Seperation: 112 Degrees
Lift @ Cam - Intake: .300"
Lift @ Cam - Exhaust: .300"
Lift w/ 1.60:1 Rockers: .480"
Lift w/ 1.70:1 Rockers: .510"
Lift w/ 1.72:1 Rockers: .516"

FRPP X303 Camshaft.......
Intake Open: 5 Degrees BTDC
Intake Close: 39 Degrees ABDC
Exhaust Open: 49 Degrees BBDC
Exhaust Close: 5 Degrees BTDC
Advertised Duration: 286/286 Degrees
Duration @ .050": 224/224 Degrees
Lobe Center Intake: 107 Degrees
Lobe Center Exhaust: 117 Degrees
Lobe Seperation: 112 Degrees
Lift @ Cam - Intake: .339"
Lift @ Cam - Exhaust: .339"
Lift w/ 1.60:1 Rockers: .542"
Lift w/ 1.70:1 Rockers: .576"
Lift w/ 1.72:1 Rockers: .583"

TrickFlow Stage 1 Camshaft.......
Intake Open: 3 Degrees BTDC
Intake Close: 38 Degrees ABDC
Exhaust Open: 49 Degrees BBDC
Exhaust Close: 4 Degrees BTDC
Advertised Duration: 275/279 Degrees
Duration @ .050": 221/225 Degrees
Lobe Center Intake: Not given on TF website
Lobe Center Exhaust: Not given on TF website
Lobe Seperation: 112 Degrees
Lift @ Cam - Intake: .312"
Lift @ Cam - Exhaust: .319"
Lift w/ 1.60:1 Rockers: .499"/.510"
Lift w/ 1.70:1 Rockers: .530"/.542"
Lift w/ 1.72:1 Rockers: .537"/.549"

The specs for the FRPP cams are out of the 2006 FRPP catalog, page 85.
The TrickFlow specs are from http://www.trickflow.com/product/camsandvalvetrain/track_cams/track_camsspecs_ford.asp

 

[795.0pacecar]

I did look at the specs, maybe you should spend time looking at results before you say two parts are basically the same. They are not very similar, just because a few of the specs are close doesn't mean the cams are going to behave the same.

 

[tjm73]

I did look at the specs, maybe you should spend time looking at results before you say two parts are basically the same. They are not very similar, just because a few of the specs are close doesn't mean the cams are going to behave the same.

Close?!?! 1 to 2 degrees is REAL F'n close. Advertised durations mean exactly nothing. Useful durations are done at .050" and at .050" we have 224/224 vs 221/225. Also pretty G.D. close. Lobe seperation? 112 for FRPP and let's see...oh wow....112 for TF too.

The only decernable difference is the lift.

 

[tjm73]

The F303....for those curious...

FRPP F303 Camshaft.......
Intake Open: 4 Degrees BTDC
Intake Close: 42 Degrees ABDC
Exhaust Open: 52 Degrees BBDC
Exhaust Close: 6 Degrees BTDC
Advertised Duration: 288/288 Degrees
Duration @ .050": 226/226 Degrees
Lobe Center Intake: 109 Degrees
Lobe Center Exhaust: 119 Degrees
Lobe Seperation: 114 Degrees
Lift @ Cam - Intake: .320"
Lift @ Cam - Exhaust: .320"
Lift w/ 1.60:1 Rockers: .512"
Lift w/ 1.70:1 Rockers: .544"
Lift w/ 1.72:1 Rockers: .550"

 

[795.0pacecar]

Close?!?! 1 to 2 degrees is REAL F'n close. Advertised durations mean exactly nothing. Useful durations are done at .050" and at .050" we have 224/224 vs 221/225. Also pretty G.D. close. Lobe seperation? 112 for FRPP and let's see...oh wow....112 for TF too.

The only decernable difference is the lift.

So I guess everyone who's had better results with the TFS1 cam are lying eh'? Just because the numbers are somewhat close, does not mean the cams will behave the same.

 

[tjm73]

So I guess everyone who's had better results with the TFS1 cam are lying eh'? Just because the numbers are somewhat close, does not mean the cams will behave the same.

Qualify "better".

The TF1 cam does have more lift and that's an advantage. Equalize the lift and run two identicle tests (and I mean scientificly valid tests) with the same engine under the same operation conditions and I am possitive the differences will be so small that the actual differences will be with a margin of error where the differences don't matter.

So many small variables exist between tests you can't really compare one test done one day and another test done another day much less chassis dynos in different shops, operator inconsistency, etc.... Even how much tension is used to strap a car down can drasticly effect the "output" of a chassis dyno. They just aren't valid comparisions.

And for the record....I never said anyone was lying. Don't try to put words in my mouth.

 

[thumper460]

Actually.. yes all three cams will show a different performance gain. That is DIFFERENT gain!! Just lift differance will make Just different power gains..
advancing the cam when you install .. will make different gains... Now the sounds of the cam?? same as all the rest.. it depends on the compression and the phase the cam was installed... and of course the amount of "Sound" from the exhaust...(two chambers are faster than the same car on 3 chambers.... OR so the SOUND says..LOL)

Just me.................................................

Thumper