Fastest vintage stang?

mustang_freak said:

Anyway, let me re phrase the question (the original question) like this:

Think that that you are on your way the the store or whatever, and suddenly you haft to stop because there is a red light. You are driving a Boss 429 and then it comes three other stangs, one is a 67 GT 500, one is a 71 Boss 351
and the third is a 69 Mach 1 with a 428 cj. You say: "I'll race all of you to the store", "ok", they say (You think you are the obviously winner because you have the big bad boss 429),
but would you smoke them or would you be smoked?

If you have any suggestions of other cars, feel free to add them.

And yeah, I know the question is FUBAR.

//

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Since you know the question is a FUBAR why bother asking it. The answer to your question is very simply, the car with the best driver will win. There is a reason why performance is measured in such static ways as 1/4 times and HP (which we all know the measurement changed....but it is static enough to draw comparison from different manufactures and models in the same years). Other forms of measurement are mere conjecture.

BB1966 said:

A 68 428 Coupe?!?!?!? Never seen one,any body got a pic of one?

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They are pretty rare, but not as rare as 428CJ convertibles. I have seen a coupe before but never the ragtop, maybe they were the ones you remember as not existing?

Here's what I show of CJ production in 1968:

The 428 Cobra Jet was introduced on April 1, 1968. A Ram Air induction setup was installed, as noted by the hood scoop and black hood stripe. The transmission options were a 4-speed manual or six-speed automatic. There was an initial run of 50 units inspired by Ford dealer and Mustang racer Bob Tasca's efforts, but eventually 2,253 CJ Fastbacks and 564 CJ coupes were produced.

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I recall reading in a Road and Track that the 428CJ was the fastest production Mustang (non-shelby) ever, until the late model Cobra-Rs. I cannot recall the specifics of the tests, but they were a composite of 0-60, and the 1/4, also included a slalom (why the boss-9 lost I figure), and either a 0-100 or a top-speed. I do not recall if they used newer tires or ran them all on bias-plys or what. I merely opined that the 68CJ coupe would be faster since it weighed less and had a lower CG than the fastback.

Anyhow...back to the FUBAR'edness

mustang_freak said:

Ok, well let's say that it's about 1 mile to the store and ALL of them have drum brakes. And of course the 1/4 time doesn't matter here because you have curves.

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That's easy.... which ever one I am driving will get there first...

When I did the two shoot-out articles for Mustang Illustrated, Curt's 68 428 Gt was ripping off high 12's with slicks on a prepared track. Car had 4.30's with a C-6.

Magazine wise, the BOSS 351 was the king on the 1/4 mile for a long time. On the twisties, it all depends on car prep. I'd guess the best STOCK, PRODUCTION Mustang (excluding the Shelby GT=-350's) on the twisties was the BOSS 302, and for absolute top end, anything with a big-block and long gears! MY old 428 SCJ with 3.25's and a 4-speed would do 135 mph easy at 4000 RPM. Never did get to stretch it all the way....

My .02!!!

in STOCK form - the fastest MUSTANG was the 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 four-speed 3.91

here's the LIST:

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/4067/50fastest.htm

50 Fastest Production Cars - American Muscle
# YEAR/MODEL ET/MPH ENGINE HP TRANS GEAR SOURCE
1 1997 Viper GTS 12.05@116 V10 450 six-speed 3.07 MM 8/97
2 1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/65
3 1990 ZR1 Corvette 12.80@113.8 350 LT5 375 six-speed 3.45 MT 4/90
4 1966 L72 Corvette 12.80@112 427 L72 425 four-speed 3.36 CD 11/65
5 1969 Roadrunner 12.91@111.8 440 Six Pack 390 four-speed 4.10 SS 6/69
6 1997 Hurst/Firebird 12.99@103.11 350 350 automatic 3.42 MCR 4/5 97
7 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.10@107.12 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/69
8 1992 Viper RT/10 13.10@108 488 V10 400 six-speed 3.07 CD 7/92
9 1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.55 CC 11/69
10 1969 Camaro 13.16@110.21 427 ZL1 430 four-speed 4.10 HC 6/69
11 1997 Corvette 13.20@109.3 350 LS-1 345 six-speed 3.42 MT 5/97
12 1997 SLP Camaro SS 13.20@108.8 350 LT4 330 six-speed 3.42 MT 2/97
13 1990 Pontiac Firehawk 13.20@107 350 350 six-speed 3.54 CD 6/91
14 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 L71 435 four-speed 3.70 HC 5/68
15 1970 Road Runner 13.34@107.5 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
16 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38@105.5 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
17 1996 Camaro Z28 SS 13.46@106.48 350 LT-1 310 six-speed 3.42 MCR F/M 96
18 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 4.10 HR 2/69
19 1973 Trans Am 13.54@104.29 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
20 1969 Corvette 13.56@111.1 427 L88 430 automatic(?) 3.36 HR 4/69
21 1969 Super Bee 13.56@105.6 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
22 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 four-speed 3.91 HC 9/69
23 1970 Challenger R/T 13.62@104.3 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
24 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63@105.9 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
25 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 four-speed 4.56 SS 4/68
26 1995 Mustang Cobra R 13.67@102.82 351 300 five-speed 3.27 MCR A/S 95
27 1964 Polara 500 13.70@107.37 426 4V 365 four-speed 3.23 HC 2/64
28 1996 CorvetteGS 13.7@105.1 350 LT-4 330 six-speed 3.45 RT 2/96
29 1969 GTX 13.70@102.8 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
30 1987 Buick GNX 13.70@102 231 Turbo V6 300 automatic 3.42 HR 4/87
31 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
32 1971 Road Runner 13.71@101.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
33 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
34 1971 Corvette 13.72@102.04 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.36 CL 8/71
35 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
36 1968 Hurst/Olds 13.77@103.91 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
37 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 four-speed N/A HR 3/68
38 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 L71 435 four-speed 3.55 HR 5/67
39 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 351 Boss 330 four-speed 3.91 MT 1/71
40 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CD 4/66
41 1969 Coronet R/T 13.83@102.27 440 4V 375 four-speed 4.10 SS 4/69
42 1968 Cyclone GT 13.86@101.69 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
43 1969 Nova SS 396 13.87@105.1 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
44 1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52 428 CJ 335 four-speed 3.91 SS 9/69
45 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 13.88@95.84 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
46 1962 Corvette 13.89@105.14 327 FI 360 four-speed 4.10 HR 1/62
47 1969 Barracuda 13.89@103.21 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
48 1969 Mustang Mach I 13.90@103.32 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
49 1967 GTO 13.90@102.8 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
50 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 four-speed 3.91 HR 2/70

I'ld bet that more than half of the cars on that list had some "extra tuning" from the factory.

That list is on a thousand websites. If the tests are not done on the same day by the same driver on the same track they are not very meaningfull when viewed side-by-side. A perfect example is the L71 and L72 Corvette's (both have 427s) being a half second apart. Or the fact that a 1970 428-Torino was faster than a 1969 Shelby 428-Mustang (24th place versus 44th place).

One half second could be anything...humidity, temperature, and track conditions routinely account for that.

I would pick the 67-8 GT 500 for 2 reasons.

1. There is renewed interest in them so they are appreciating faster than average market value.

2. Sorry to say this Carroll.....but they man is getting old. In the immediate months following the unmentionable I expect values to at least double...which would be a perfect time to dump it and buy 2-3 b429s

Max Power said:

Um, sorry, but no way a stock Boss 351 and a 4-speed does 160mph with 3.91 gears. As good as the motor is, it doesn't rev to 12,000 rpm.

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I also doubt 160+ mph was possible in total stock trim.

Car and Driver, Feb 1971: with the 3.91 rear
top speed 117. 0-60 - 5.8 1/4 - 14.1 @ 100.6


What was it about the Boss 351 that made it quicker (acceleration) that the 429's? Front-end weight difference? 429 breathes better at the upper end? Underrated hp (335) ?

chepsk8 said:

MY old 428 SCJ with 3.25's and a 4-speed would do 135 mph easy at 4000 RPM. Never did get to stretch it all the way....

My .02!!!

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LOL Cheppie! Those musta been some purdy tall tires you were runnin!

http://www.drivetrainsuperstores.com/calculate.asp

BTW, there sure aren't many Fords on that top 50 list.

Hoyt Clagwell said:

I also doubt 160+ mph was possible in total stock trim.

What was it about the Boss 351 that made it quicker (acceleration) that the 429's? Front-end weight difference? 429 breathes better at the upper end? Underrated hp (335) ?

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One simple word... TRACTION- The 351Boss is an extremely strong runner - but like all 4v clevelands it is known for a bit of a soggy bottom end- it really pulls hard at top end. You can ride it a bit harder out of the hole than a 429scj on stock tires. Dump the clutch on a 429 at more than 2500 rpm and you've got LOTS of tire smoke.

I saw a video of a friend of mine from some years ago at SAAC. He has a 67 GT500 and he mounted a video camera so you could see out the front windsreen and see the instrument cluster... he was doing 140+ in the straights.

Max Power said:

Um, sorry, but no way a stock Boss 351 and a 4-speed does 160mph with 3.91 gears. As good as the motor is, it doesn't rev to 12,000 rpm.

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Hmmmm sounds like a bench racing argument, 12k rpm would push a car past 200mph The guy I watched hit the trap at around 7200-7500 Rpm, I've gone 145 in my car quite a few times, with a crappy automatic, and 3.25 gears. As a side note, did I mention this was at Seattle internationals road course, not drag racing, it's not like he hit 160 in a stock ride from the 1/4. it was coming out of the last turn @ 70mph (high bank), onto a HUGE straight.

Plus I dont know how much was to make it look cool, and how much was actuall design, but the body on the 71-73 sports roofs are actually really aero-dynamic.

OK, used the calculator and with 27 inch tall tires, he would be running just shy of 8000 rpm. It's a great motor, but 8000rpm? Even free revving, that's a lot, but pulling a 3500lb car through the air at 160mph?

Let's just say I have my doubts. If he did that, I don't think the motor was stock. Not even close.

Depends on how tall the tires are. 3.91's do seem a bit low for that speed. 3.25s would do it though.

Here's the fastest classic Mustang.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ry=80766&item=4510568993&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[QUOTE='68StangGT]in STOCK form - the fastest MUSTANG was the 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 four-speed 3.91

here's the LIST:

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/4067/50fastest.htm
[/QUOTE]


thats not entirely true either. because look at this website.

http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm

when you get right down too it, nobody really knows, and nobody really kept track of that, other then on the strip itself. thats about it.

As far as fastest production car of that time, I would guess probably that Vette. But, I dont know. That is just a guess...

1320stang said:

Here's the fastest classic Mustang.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ry=80766&item=4510568993&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

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Good Point! I was fortunate enough to be standing at the end of the track when Ashley took the Pro Mod title here in Vegas.

Man, I don't know if any of you have had the oportunity to stand at the end of the track when top fuelers are comin' at you, but it's pretty much like lookin' at the space shuttle coming straight at you full speed...

Looks like a feeding frenzy on the bidding

I have a hard time believing the fastest stock for stock Mustang ever did a 13.6! Makes me wonder who put the list together.

mdjay said:

I have a hard time believing the fastest stock for stock Mustang ever did a 13.6! Makes me wonder who put the list together.

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Pretty silly eh? The Supercharged Cobras of 03-04 are faster than that with street tires. Hell my little old 97 Cobra is that fast (SVTs website says 13.7)!

1320stang said:

Here's the fastest classic Mustang.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ry=80766&item=4510568993&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

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Ugh...that car is a travesty. I don't know how it can be called a mustang still.