Few issues with new clutch (Hissin and friends comeon it)

dec322 · Nov 7, 2007

the title should say "come on in"

I just got my car back from the mechanic today. They installed a new clutch in the car and I found out my transmission is from an 84. They also had to have the disc set custom built because they were having trouble getting things to fit. Now when I try to shift into 1st (at a standstill) or second (downshifting from 3rd) I have to force it into gear. I looked under the hood (in the dark) and saw the FWA was screwed way out. This seems to be the problem to me but I need some confirmation.

Ultimately I'll take it back to the shop if I need to but if its an easy fix then I'll do it myself.

Also, when starting in first there is a chattery type noise. The weird thing is that it sounds like its coming from the passenger side and its sounds like its coming from the roof. Any suggestions?

Darkwriter77 · Nov 7, 2007

Do you have a multi-hook quadrant? If so, maybe try loosening the FWA all the way (allowing the cable full slack) and moving the cable up a notch, then screwing the FWA back out until the majority of the slack is taken up. It might be that they tried setting the cable up on the hook closest to the firewall, thus the FWA doesn't have enough threads on it to compensate for all the resultant slack; moving it up a notch should leave it to where you don't need to screw the FWA very far out at all to get your pedal adjusted to where you want it.

If you don't have a multi-hook quad ... I'd take it back to 'em and let them know they buggered up the job. Regardless of whether you've got an '84 tranny or not, it shouldn't necessitate that they make any sort of a "custom clutch kit" for that - it's still a T-5, and the only possible difference might be in the size of the flywheel (in which case all you need to do is install a newer flywheel from, say, an '87 to '93 model).

dec322 · Nov 7, 2007

It had something to do with the clutch is 10 inches instead of 11. Then when they put the pressure plate on it was 1/4 inch bigger. I don't know. All I know is I paid for perfect and I will get perfect .

The guys are super cool so I don't think I'll have a problem.

Fast63 · Nov 7, 2007

They are yanking your chain with that "custom" bullcrap. Don't touch any work they did, take it back and tell them to fix it. You shouldn't get something back that doesn't work. All clutches for 86-93 (at least) all have the same dimensions, and they are 10.5 inches, not 11. The 79-85's all have 10 inch setups. You can't by any means interchange the two parts. The only way for it to work is order a 10 inch setup or a 10.5 inch setup, corresponding to the year of your car. If you have an 84 tranny, it does not matter, like darkwriter said, it's still a T-5! If for some reason someone put a 10 inch flywheel in your car, then yes, there would be a problem, but the only fix is to get the bigger 10.5 flywheel. I did this conversion in my 85, going from 10 inch to 10.5. All I did was order the 86-93 setup and buy a flywheel for the same year, it is as simple as that. If they were any kind of real mechanics, they would know that by opening up ANY type of service manual they have.

HISSIN50 · Nov 7, 2007

Where is the point of engagement? If it's not on the floor (but rather is higher up in the pedal's travel), the adjustment should be alright (alright enough to leave till the shop can deal with it).

Does the chattery feel only happen while letting the clutch pedal in or out? If so, it's most likely a simple chatter, which is either an issue (real) or the friction surfaces breaking in. Most definitely let the shop know about it. A chattering clutch can shake the car (and yourself) any number of places.

If you can, get your old clutch kit so you know exactly what worked well in there in the past (in case things can't be resolved).

Good luck.

Good luck.

dec322 · Nov 7, 2007

The engagement is around the middle.

The chattering is when I'm releasing the clutch pedal (engaging?) in first gear. What is strange is that the car would kinda chatter before when I would go into first b/c the clutch needed replacing. The noise is new.

I'll see about the old clutch kit.

I don't understand the whole rebuilding part of my experience. Everyone here is saying its bull and I thought it was strange. I asked what "rebuilt" means and they said some springs and stuff needed to be replaced. Where are the springs?

I know they tried to put a clutch kit for the later years and it didn't fit. Then they saw a marking on the inside of the plate that said "84" so they put in an 84 model kit and put everything back together. Then they couldn't get it into gear at all so they dropped the tranny again and measured the old something (I assumed it was the pressure plate) and saw it a 1/4 inch bigger. Then I guess they rebuilt my old plate and reused it with the new clutch disc, throwout bearing, and resurfaced flywheel.

Darkwriter77 · Nov 7, 2007

They're full of crap. Period. Unless they happen to have a clutch disc manufacturing plant right next door, they did not "rebuild" your clutch disc. That's like taking your car to a brake shop and them claiming they "rebuilt" your friggin' brake pads. A clutch disc is just a thin metal disc with a couple of springs crimped/riveted in there and the friction surfaces BONDED to the disc assembly. "Rebuilt" my arse...

Is this a transmission specialty shop, a franchise place (like Aamco), or just some "we fix everything" Uncle Slappy kind of shop? Whatever the case, have these dudes been in the business of changing clutches at all for very long, or are they just cracking open an Chilton manual and fumbling their way through it? The situation is so simple as hell, I dunno how they can't figure it out. Either it has an early flywheel needing a smaller clutch, or it has a later flywheel requiring a larger one. That's all there is to it.

If you do take it back in there for reworking, insist that you are allowed to watch the entire process so you can see what kind of nonsense it is they're trying to push on you with this "rebuilding" crap, and what they mean by the thing being 1/4" off in size.

Argh ... shops piss me off. I'm glad I did my clutch on my own, last time - that way, if anything went wrong, I knew exactly whose arse to kick, and why.

HISSIN50 · Nov 7, 2007

dec322 said:
I asked what "rebuilt" means and they said some springs and stuff needed to be replaced. Where are the springs?

The rebuilt PP doesnt sit well with me either.

I just wanted to add (in case they bring it up and you don't happen to be familiar with the term) that Marcel springs are the wafer springs in the middle of the disk (when viewing the disk from the edge). They act like a little dashpot/damper and are huge for not having a lot of chatter when engaging the clutch.

This is not to be confused with the coil springs around the hub (they're little absorbers as well). THose are pretty easily replacable.

Good luck.

dec322 · Nov 8, 2007

Next time lets just meet in the middle of the US and you guys and "show" me what you are talking about .

It is a do it all shop but I thought it was ok b/c its a freaking clutch and surely every shop could do a clutch. I don't have the tools or time so I can't do it but surely the shop can.

Honestly I don't care if its "rebuilt" just as long as it works right and it doesn't work completely right.

Thanks for the input guys and I'll let you know what I find out later today.

dec322 · Nov 9, 2007

Update

Well, I took it back yesterday b/c the owner told me they would just adjust it while I waited. That ended with 6 guys surrounding my car watching one guy rev it and shift. Finally, a guy came in and said, "It shifts fine if you rev it first". I left it with them b/c it didn't need that before the new clutch.

Today I get the call from the owner. He said they drained the old fluid out and filled it with synthetic plus some additive. "My mechanic, Les, drove the car and said it shifts great. Les was shifting through the gears with one finger". Personally, I don't know what fluid would have to do with it b/c they replaced the clutch but I don't care just as long as it works.

So I get there and take it for a spin. Same problem. So I bring it back, leave it running, go inside and ask the owner to come feel for himself. He sees it doesn't work and turns the car off. Then puts it in gear, starts the car and rows through the gears without a problem. According to him this proves that the clutch is good and he is wondering about the tranny (specifically mentions syncros). My response is that I don't know if its clutch or tranny but I do know that it shifted smooth before I brought it to them. Then I mentioned the fact that they drove the car to diagnosis the slipping clutch and they didn't notice a tranny problem. He then got in it and started to rev it to shift into 1st. He asked me to break the clutch in over the weekend and bring it back monday if the problem persists.

Now I have a new problem. After the car warmed up real good I pulled up to a stop light while in 1st gear (but clutch pedal is pressed down). As I slowed down below 5 mph there is some vibration (almost a dragging feeling) and then the car vibrates while in gear. I can tell that I'll be taking it back to the mechanic and getting the mechanic to drive it while I sit in the passenger seat telling him everything that is out of order.

Darkwriter77 · Nov 9, 2007

I wished you lived in AZ. Seriously. Stuff like this with incompetent shops screwing with people make me so mad I'd rather just get my hands on it and fix the problem for the person, myself - not that I'm some mechanical genius, but I wouldn't feed you BS and charge you by the hour for it while I try to figure out what the hell I'm doing, either.

Could it possibly have something to do with the throwout bearing hanging up on the input shaft bearing retainer, by chance? Unless it's been changed out with a newer-design one, the old bearing retainers were aluminum and would tend to have problems with the throwout bearing getting kind of hung up on it from time to time. This sort of thing can screw with how your clutch engages/disengages and, thus, may or may not have something to do with what's going on with yours. It's about the only thing I can think of that would have been affected by the installation of a new clutch kit, as the throwout bearing and pilot bearings are both usually included. Who knows ... maybe those chumps installed the thing backwards, or didn't get both fingers of the clutch fork under the bearing?

dec322 · Nov 9, 2007

Would these things cause the vibration in first?

Nibbie · Nov 10, 2007

The vibration could be coming from a miss-alighned clutch dish and assembly to the flywheel or flywheel aint torqed down properly. if it aint lined up right and its a little crooked then under slow speeds you might notice a vibration, under load and with everything spinning you might not feel the vibration. other vibrations can come from drive shaft or worn out tranny parts. I didnt see it before but what year is your car? and you mentioned them installing a 10.5in. clutch disk on a 10.0in flywheel I would not do that, I would make them correct there mistake. what kind of clutch are you using? There are 2 differnt types of T-5's from early 80's and 90's, I dont remember the year but it may be 85 or 86 when ford used a BorgWorner WC T-5, yes some mustangs from the early 80's didnt use it. same tranny but the internals are beefed up a little on the WC version. there should be a set of numbers on the side of the case if your interested in looking. Personaly I never seen years stamped on them like 84,85, 86.

dec322 · Nov 10, 2007

Nibbie said:
The vibration could be coming from a miss-alighned clutch dish and assembly to the flywheel or flywheel aint torqed down properly. if it aint lined up right and its a little crooked then under slow speeds you might notice a vibration, under load and with everything spinning you might not feel the vibration. other vibrations can come from drive shaft or worn out tranny parts. I didnt see it before but what year is your car? and you mentioned them installing a 10.5in. clutch disk on a 10.0in flywheel I would not do that, I would make them correct there mistake. what kind of clutch are you using? There are 2 differnt types of T-5's from early 80's and 90's, I dont remember the year but it may be 85 or 86 when ford used a BorgWorner WC T-5, yes some mustangs from the early 80's didnt use it. same tranny but the internals are beefed up a little on the WC version. there should be a set of numbers on the side of the case if your interested in looking. Personaly I never seen years stamped on them like 84,85, 86.

They didn't install a 10.5 on a 10 inch flywheel. They had problems getting new stuff to fit so they ended up getting my old clutch set rebuilt at a local place that does it. So, hypothetically, everything on the car is the same as before except a new rear main seal and throwout bearing and resurfaced flywheel. I don't know about my tranny but maybe I'll check it out today.

baldy1 · Nov 10, 2007

If they didnt put the throw out bearing on the fork right would also cause your problem. Man they are pulling your chain. I am a tranmission tech. Been one for 12 years. On the clutch fork there is two metal tabs. If they didnt put the part of the bearing behind both of the metal tabs that will cause your problem. You can reuse the pressure plate with a new disc. I have never done this because people pay for a new clutch so they get a new clutch kit. Do this. Go to your local parts store and see if they offer two different size clutch kits. Or you can do this. Go to them and get your money back and take it to a transmission shop to do the work.

Nibbie · Nov 10, 2007

oh my bad lol, I must have read it wrong, a little faded last night when i got home.

baldy1 · Nov 10, 2007

Is your car an 88. I have an 87. They only offer a 10.5 clutch. Not a 10 or 11. that is only for the F-150's. Mustangs only have a 10.5 Part No. MU481M That is a part number for the kit. Its at Advance autoParts. Dont know if thats around where you are.

dec322 · Nov 10, 2007

baldy1 said:
Is your car an 88. I have an 87. They only offer a 10.5 clutch. Not a 10 or 11. that is only for the F-150's. Mustangs only have a 10.5 Part No. MU481M That is a part number for the kit. Its at Advance autoParts. Dont know if thats around where you are.

Yeah, we've got Advanced Auto.

My car is an 88 but it was originally an auto that the previous owner converted to 5-speed. Evidently the tranny he used was from an 84 which doesn't matter for me as far as driving it goes. The tranny has shifted great until I took it to the shop for clutch work.

baldy1 · Nov 10, 2007

Part No.
MU472831 That is the part number for an 84. Both carb and FI. It takes the same clutch. That is a 10in clutch kit. I am sorry but they cant rebuild you pressure plate. Shops like that make honest techs such as myself look real bad. I hate that. Go buy the clutch kit yourself and take it to them and have them install it for free. if they give you a problem say the court word that always scares people like that. You have the part number so go and do that and let us know what happens

dec322 · Nov 10, 2007

baldy1 said:
Part No.
MU472831 That is the part number for an 84. Both carb and FI. It takes the same clutch. That is a 10in clutch kit. I am sorry but they cant rebuild you pressure plate. Shops like that make honest techs such as myself look real bad. I hate that. Go buy the clutch kit yourself and take it to them and have them install it for free. if they give you a problem say the court word that always scares people like that. You have the part number so go and do that and let us know what happens

I found out the other day that they rebuilt my whole clutch set (not just the pressure plate). New friction pads (or whatever) on the clutch disc, new springs on something or other. Really I don't care. I paid for it to be perfect and it will be perfect.

I'd do it myself but there are a few things in my way:

1. No Tools
2. No Time

I could fix the first one but the second one will not be fixed thanks to 3 kids (7 year old, 3 year old, and 2 year old).

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