fiberglass hood help

scottspence9 · Dec 17, 2006

I just got my 3 inch cowl hood friday from mustang depot and when putting it on today i found that the hood is about a 1/2 an inch too narrow in the rear and has a gap of 1/2 inch on the drivers side and 1/4 inch gap on the pass side in the rear at the front of the hood it fits good if anything its a hair to wide but that is an easy fix. I know that fiberglass is not a BOLT ON part but i cant see how to fix this without doing some serious modifications. Also the hood does not line up with the body line in the cowl on a 65 fastback. Just wondering what i should do I dont want to go through all the trouble to fix it when it could be a manufactufing defect or is this a normal thing with fiberglass just seems like its a little too much gap to fix

truck90278 · Dec 18, 2006

We had a similar problem with our deck lid on our 65. I did a lenghty discussion, with most all the details, on how to fix the problem. you'll have to research my threads to find it, sorry, i don't know how to link you to it. To solve the problem, it isn't particularly hard to do, just takes some time and you will get good results

truck90278 · Dec 18, 2006

truck90278 · Dec 18, 2006

I did some research on the thread and it was in response to one of your threads, "info on some fiberglass parts" What we did their will work on your hood also

fasttback · Dec 18, 2006

Here is some info on working with fiberglass body panels that goes over some basics that can be applied to most fixes or modifications. I would like to give credit to the author, but I cannot find the link.

Supplies you will need:
1) Laminating resin
2) Fiberglass cloth
3) Fiberglass mat
4) Fiberglass Tape 1" wide don't have to have this, but it is neater
5) "kitty hair" filler
6) small paint roller (real small, 2-3")

1st, make a template of the side (end view) you are going to add
fiberglass to. Use a piece of cardboard. Simply stand the deck lid on
the end and draw it. Add about .5 to 1" excess on each side of the
outline.

Using a good FLAT surface (use a board etc.) lay out the template
(redraw it) and cover it with household wax paper. the wax paper will
allow you to seperate the built up fiberglass from your pattern easily.
An important note, be sure that the surface (against the wax paper) is
the side of the piece you are going to make, is the side which will be
bonded to the deck lid. this side will be very flat and mate fairly easy
to the deck lid.
you will need to cut oversize the matt and cloth to your pattern

You will want to apply multiple layers alternating between cloth and
matt over your pattern on the wax paper. I built up the following layers
and I did not wait for the resin to cure. Put resin down first and
between each layer

cloth
matt
cloth
matt

this should be very close to 1/4" in thickness, if you add more, fine,
you can always grind some off to get your gaps right. the real trick
here is to minimize air pockets (voids). You can do this by first being
liberal with resin, run the roller over each layer thoroughly saturating
the cloth and matt. after you have built this piece up, let it cure
overnight.

Next day, pull up your part and trim with a grinder, sander etc. Be
sure and leave it oversize, you'll size it later once it is attached to
the deck lid

The approach i used to attach the new piece is as follows:

On the deck lid, you will have to grind the gelcoat off and get down to
the actual figerglass. If you don't nothing will stick.
Wax paper down first, lay your piece on it with the flattest side up.
Cut another piece of cloth slightly oversize lay it on your new piece
and apply resin and be sure that the cloth is saturated with resin. I
stood the deck lid on edge (straight up -as I was doing it by myself)
and allowed the weight of the decklid to hold it in place while it
cured. This "sandwiched" the new piece to the old piece. Best way would
be to have some help and apply clamps, but as I said, I was working by
my self. Just be sure if you used my method that the lid is
perpenicular.

After this is curred overnight, breakout the grinder/sander and grind
to shape.

your almost done.
To be sure the edge won't be prone to breaking off, I did the
following:

Now, on the inside of the deck lid, grind down (carefully) to the
actual fiberglass. The inside piece is very thin around the edge, try
not to go thru the glass, but if you do, simply add some cloth. After
grinding to the fiberglass, add resin , your grinding should go back to
approximately where the trunk lid seal goes ~3/4" - 1" from the outside
edge. this is where the fiberglass tape comes in. I used two layers of
the fiberglass tape over this area, again working our any air bubbles. I
left ~ 1/4" of the tape hanging over the edge to be later ground off. I
followed the same approach on the top side, but used only 1 layer of
tape.

Now sand this area with ~ 80 grit disk.
apply a THIN layer of the Kitty Hair (short strand versions work great)
over your joint

sand and your done. Need to prep for primer surfacer

On the inside of the deck lid where the inner support has been glassed
to the outer lid, it was really crappy along with the back edge where
the two pieces meet. I simply lightly ground thru the gel coat and
applied the fiberglass tape with resin. After curing, lightly sanded and
lightly applied filler.

Hope this helps, may be more than you wanted. If your want any
additional data, send an email.

this should work just as well for your hood. what I forgot to add to the
earlier post was that all the items, with the exception of the tape is
available at the local hardware store. Usually, you will have to find a
plastic/fiberglass supplier for the tape. The advantage to it is it won't
unravel on the edge like regular cloth does when you cut a larger sheet
of cloth. alternate the layers for strength. From fiberglass suppliers,
cloth and mat come in various weights (thickness), I would suggest going
with the lighter material as it is easier to saturate with resin. Tap
comes in various widths, for your piece, you may want to use some wider
2" or so. depends on how short you are. to test the joint, I hit the
strip with a plastic hammer about 15 times with no ill effects.

Hope that helps.

mdjay · Dec 19, 2006

scottspence9 said:
I just got my 3 inch cowl hood friday from mustang depot and when putting it on today i found that the hood is about a 1/2 an inch too narrow in the rear and has a gap of 1/2 inch on the drivers side and 1/4 inch gap on the pass side in the rear at the front of the hood it fits good if anything its a hair to wide but that is an easy fix. I know that fiberglass is not a BOLT ON part but i cant see how to fix this without doing some serious modifications. Also the hood does not line up with the body line in the cowl on a 65 fastback. Just wondering what i should do I dont want to go through all the trouble to fix it when it could be a manufactufing defect or is this a normal thing with fiberglass just seems like its a little too much gap to fix

Scott

What color was the hood you received? Curious of the manufacturer!

Do you have reproduction fenders?

Is there gaps in the back where the fender meets the cowl? 1/8 of an inch on each side would increase the gaps between the hood and the fenders 1/4".

It's not likely that the hood would be that far off or we would get constant complaints. The fact that it's too tight in the front and too loose in the back suggests your fenders need adjustment.

I sent you an email with a request to send me some pictures.

Jay

truck90278 · Dec 19, 2006

Thanks for the credit acknowledgement

fasttback said:
Here is some info on working with fiberglass body panels that goes over some basics that can be applied to most fixes or modifications. I would like to give credit to the author, but I cannot find the link.

Supplies you will need:
1) Laminating resin
2) Fiberglass cloth
3) Fiberglass mat
4) Fiberglass Tape 1" wide don't have to have this, but it is neater
5) "kitty hair" filler
6) small paint roller (real small, 2-3")

1st, make a template of the side (end view) you are going to add
fiberglass to. Use a piece of cardboard. Simply stand the deck lid on
the end and draw it. Add about .5 to 1" excess on each side of the
outline.

Using a good FLAT surface (use a board etc.) lay out the template
(redraw it) and cover it with household wax paper. the wax paper will
allow you to seperate the built up fiberglass from your pattern easily.
An important note, be sure that the surface (against the wax paper) is
the side of the piece you are going to make, is the side which will be
bonded to the deck lid. this side will be very flat and mate fairly easy
to the deck lid.
you will need to cut oversize the matt and cloth to your pattern

You will want to apply multiple layers alternating between cloth and
matt over your pattern on the wax paper. I built up the following layers
and I did not wait for the resin to cure. Put resin down first and
between each layer

cloth
matt
cloth
matt

this should be very close to 1/4" in thickness, if you add more, fine,
you can always grind some off to get your gaps right. the real trick
here is to minimize air pockets (voids). You can do this by first being
liberal with resin, run the roller over each layer thoroughly saturating
the cloth and matt. after you have built this piece up, let it cure
overnight.

Next day, pull up your part and trim with a grinder, sander etc. Be
sure and leave it oversize, you'll size it later once it is attached to
the deck lid

The approach i used to attach the new piece is as follows:

On the deck lid, you will have to grind the gelcoat off and get down to
the actual figerglass. If you don't nothing will stick.
Wax paper down first, lay your piece on it with the flattest side up.
Cut another piece of cloth slightly oversize lay it on your new piece
and apply resin and be sure that the cloth is saturated with resin. I
stood the deck lid on edge (straight up -as I was doing it by myself)
and allowed the weight of the decklid to hold it in place while it
cured. This "sandwiched" the new piece to the old piece. Best way would
be to have some help and apply clamps, but as I said, I was working by
my self. Just be sure if you used my method that the lid is
perpenicular.

After this is curred overnight, breakout the grinder/sander and grind
to shape.

your almost done.
To be sure the edge won't be prone to breaking off, I did the
following:

Now, on the inside of the deck lid, grind down (carefully) to the
actual fiberglass. The inside piece is very thin around the edge, try
not to go thru the glass, but if you do, simply add some cloth. After
grinding to the fiberglass, add resin , your grinding should go back to
approximately where the trunk lid seal goes ~3/4" - 1" from the outside
edge. this is where the fiberglass tape comes in. I used two layers of
the fiberglass tape over this area, again working our any air bubbles. I
left ~ 1/4" of the tape hanging over the edge to be later ground off. I
followed the same approach on the top side, but used only 1 layer of
tape.

Now sand this area with ~ 80 grit disk.
apply a THIN layer of the Kitty Hair (short strand versions work great)
over your joint

sand and your done. Need to prep for primer surfacer

On the inside of the deck lid where the inner support has been glassed
to the outer lid, it was really crappy along with the back edge where
the two pieces meet. I simply lightly ground thru the gel coat and
applied the fiberglass tape with resin. After curing, lightly sanded and
lightly applied filler.

Hope this helps, may be more than you wanted. If your want any
additional data, send an email.

this should work just as well for your hood. what I forgot to add to the
earlier post was that all the items, with the exception of the tape is
available at the local hardware store. Usually, you will have to find a
plastic/fiberglass supplier for the tape. The advantage to it is it won't
unravel on the edge like regular cloth does when you cut a larger sheet
of cloth. alternate the layers for strength. From fiberglass suppliers,
cloth and mat come in various weights (thickness), I would suggest going
with the lighter material as it is easier to saturate with resin. Tap
comes in various widths, for your piece, you may want to use some wider
2" or so. depends on how short you are. to test the joint, I hit the
strip with a plastic hammer about 15 times with no ill effects.

Hope that helps.

scottspence9 · Dec 20, 2006

mdjay said:
Scott
What color was the hood you received? Curious of the manufacturer!

Do you have reproduction fenders?

Is there gaps in the back where the fender meets the cowl? 1/8 of an inch on each side would increase the gaps between the hood and the fenders 1/4".

It's not likely that the hood would be that far off or we would get constant complaints. The fact that it's too tight in the front and too loose in the back suggests your fenders need adjustment.

I sent you an email with a request to send me some pictures.

Jay

scottspence9 · Dec 21, 2006

fasttback · Dec 21, 2006

While looking at your pics, it reminds me of my problems with my 1965/66 Shelby hood purchased at Mustangs Plus. After some use with the hood (heating and cooling of the engine compartment), it seems like the hood "flattened" a little making it more out of alignment with the cowl.

They should make these hoods bigger than normal (length and width). It's much eaiser to take down fiberglass than to increase it.

zookeeper · Dec 23, 2006

This post is all too common. You'd think that somewhere out there is a manufacturer of decent 'glass parts, but they must be hiding out. Branda claims to be the pinnacle of quality 'glass Shelby parts, but their stuff fit just as poorly as the Maier parts I got from Mustangs Plus. They all said the same thing, "must be your car". My hood was too narrow, too short and had a huge droop in the center of the front. All the 'glass hoods I've seen do the same thing, and either the owner corrected it before paint or it used a paint trick to hide it. The next time you hear a manufacturer tell you "that's just the way 'glass is" they are lying. That's the way THEIR glass is, but street rod fiberglass is much, much nicer and actually fits very well, plus it is cheaper than the $500 pos hood, $500 nose, $400 deck lid and so on that I bought. Good luck with your parts, but the reality is it's going to be a lot of work.

mdjay · Dec 23, 2006

Well we actually give a crap!

We've been working with Scott to determine the actual problem. Any problems we find with the FSI line are forwarded directly to the manufacturer to make any necessary adjustments.

Most of the problems that we find are with the individual cars. But in some rare cases, the molds can change. Our goal as the retailer is to find these inconsistencies and ultimately make happy customers.

Fiberglass is not a perfect science and will always require a reasonable amount of prep and fitment. Especially on a 40 year old unibody that gets bumped, twists, moves and had loose manufacturing standards from the get go.

zookeeper · Dec 23, 2006

I didn't mean that as an attack on you or your business practices, but rather on the attitude of the producers as a whole. My Maier hood was over 9/16 too narrow and nearly 3/8 too short, do you really think that was due to Ford's loose tolerances? My car was a nice, low mileage, never damaged (ever) car, and I verified that when I stripped it to bare metal to paint it, it looked like new. Yet nothing even came close to fitting. Yet I'd bet money that if I bought an original hood, door or trunk from another car, it would bolt on and line up as well as the original. I painted a Cervini hood for a friends '89 GT and it was truly a scuff and shoot job. It fit perfectly and looked finished right out of the box. Why can't I get that kind of quality for a vintage car? My wife's Corvette is one year newer than my '68 and the body panels line up perfectly, was GM that far advanced in '69? Lots of budget auto parts stores sell carbon fiber hoods for various Hondas for about $400 or less and they bolt right on with even gaps and most are never, ever painted or "adjusted" to hide poor quality and I think we all know for a fact they are made overseas. My "Made in The USA" Maier hood drooped so badly in the front that it covered the upper 1/4 of the center high beams! My Branda trunk was paper-thin and had a twist in it, plus the taillight panel wouldn't even bolt on the car nor would the end caps. In fact the Branda end caps were nearly 3/4" off at the top, you think that's due to Ford's inability to hold tolerances? More likely it's Branda's apathetic attitude towards quality. I think it's great you pass on complaints to your suppliers, but does anything really get changed? More likely the suppliers shrug it off, maybe give one out of every hundred customers a refund and keep cranking out crap. It's been happening for far too long for this to be a temporary lapse in quality control.

Eyeless_Seven · Dec 23, 2006

My Ex father- in- law has been making his own fiberglass part's for year's. I am itching to show you guy's how he make's them so you can DIY. Very low cost and perfect fit everytime. I have not secured his permission to post picture's of his car , but when I do you will be amazed on what he has done with his Mustang .
When he first told me what he was making his racing apron out of, I laughed for day's, till I seen it come together and the finish product.
He has never worked in the fiberglass field by the way, and his tool's are nothing special , and low quality, nor does he use any mold's.
I will approach him on doing a little photo shoot, next time he is in town.

fasttback · Dec 23, 2006

zookeeper said:
I didn't mean that as an attack on you or your business practices, but rather on the attitude of the producers as a whole. My Maier hood was over 9/16 too narrow and nearly 3/8 too short, do you really think that was due to Ford's loose tolerances? My car was a nice, low mileage, never damaged (ever) car, and I verified that when I stripped it to bare metal to paint it, it looked like new. Yet nothing even came close to fitting. Yet I'd bet money that if I bought an original hood, door or trunk from another car, it would bolt on and line up as well as the original. I painted a Cervini hood for a friends '89 GT and it was truly a scuff and shoot job. It fit perfectly and looked finished right out of the box. Why can't I get that kind of quality for a vintage car? My wife's Corvette is one year newer than my '68 and the body panels line up perfectly, was GM that far advanced in '69? Lots of budget auto parts stores sell carbon fiber hoods for various Hondas for about $400 or less and they bolt right on with even gaps and most are never, ever painted or "adjusted" to hide poor quality and I think we all know for a fact they are made overseas. My "Made in The USA" Maier hood drooped so badly in the front that it covered the upper 1/4 of the center high beams! My Branda trunk was paper-thin and had a twist in it, plus the taillight panel wouldn't even bolt on the car nor would the end caps. In fact the Branda end caps were nearly 3/4" off at the top, you think that's due to Ford's inability to hold tolerances? More likely it's Branda's apathetic attitude towards quality. I think it's great you pass on complaints to your suppliers, but does anything really get changed? More likely the suppliers shrug it off, maybe give one out of every hundred customers a refund and keep cranking out crap. It's been happening for far too long for this to be a temporary lapse in quality control.

Zookeeper,

You summed up most of my thoughts with the manufactures of repo fiberglass parts for our Mustangs. I had some lengthy conversations with Mustangs Plus about the hood problems I had, but from their response and attitude this is just how it is. I don't think so, I know fiberglass parts can be good quality. At car shows I looked at "original" Shelby hoods and wonder how 60's measuring technology could be better than today's? I thought about "working" with my hood, but after the pancake affect, I don't know if it is worth it. IF someone made a good quality hood and would stand behind it, I would not mind paying more for it.

zookeeper · Dec 23, 2006

Mustangs Plus is the worst as far as customer sympathy. I should have known better by the disclaimer in their catalog in the fiberglass section, but instead I bought from them because I was passing through the Stockton area, and figured I could save a couple hundred bucks on shipping the hood and nose if I picked it up at their store. That taught me not to price shop, so I bought my next parts from Branda, and that taught me that more expensive doesn't always mean better. As a machinist I don't offer excuses for any mistakes I make, so why should I accept excuses for poor quality parts? I work hard for my money and I work hard to be good at my job and I see no reason to accept laziness on the part of others who make their living off of me.

mdjay · Dec 24, 2006

Can't speak on behalf of MP or Maier Racing. Maier does the same thing with our feedback as he does with all of yours. I'm specifically talking about the FSI line in which we have a direct hand in bringing in cars, doing fitting, adjust, re-fitting, adjust and get these products as close as possible before and after molding. Yes, they're local to us and yes they make the necessary adjustments we deem necessary. Yes, FSI has been contacted about this current issue, yes we will be looking at it together this week.

Travis77 · Dec 24, 2006

I will be needing to order also real soon. Hope I'm not butting in too bad, but anyone know who could make a 3" cowl hood in carbon fiber? I realize there is still a shortage, but surely someone could pull it off.

mdjay · Jan 3, 2007

The hoods on the shelf measure correctly so this one must not have cured all the way before packaging and shipping. That's the only explanation I can imagine. This can happen in the colder weather if there's not enough catalist in the resin.

Edbert · Jan 3, 2007

scottspence9 said:
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0421.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0420.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0419.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0418.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0417.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0416.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0415.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0414.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0413.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0412.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0411.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0410.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0409.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0408.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0407.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0406.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0405.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0404.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0403.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/IMG_0402.jpg

YIKES!

This might work better:
http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/scottspence9/?

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