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Fidanza Aluminum Street Rant Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Noobz347
  • Start date Start date Jan 7, 2011
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srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end
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#21
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #21
SSeater said:
There was an article in hotrod magazine a while back about what's new in clutches... and they touched lightly on aluminum flywheels. The general message was that a steel or iron flywheel with more mass would naturally provide more torque for a launch. The difference in weight between a steel and aluminum wheel is half. They went on to say that heavier cars like old 57 chevys, impalas blah blah should stick with steel because they need it to get out of the hole.
In contrast, the lighter cars, i.e. fox mustangs, with big cube balanced strokers already make big torque, and benefit more from the acceleration than suffer from the small loss of torque.

That's hotrod- not me. but those guys have been around racing since before I was born and I'm an old fart.

It's a good idea imo if you're turning a lot of rpm's to at least use steel, because iron can and will explode, and it ain't purty. I've seen it.
Click to expand...


this!

for a low HP car a steel flywheel is better because it stores rotaional energy due to its weight to help get the car off the line

a higher HP car will be better off with the aluminum to help let them spin up.
 

90lxcoupe

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#22
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #22
srtthis said:
this!

for a low HP car a steel flywheel is better because it stores rotaional energy due to its weight to help get the car off the line

a higher HP car will be better off with the aluminum to help let them spin up.
Click to expand...

thats kind of a blanket statement. There are alot of other factors, tire choice, how good track prep is, where the motor makes power, launch RPM... theres a few more factors to keep in mind
 

srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end
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#23
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #23
yea... i should have said rule of thumb i guess


im at a toss up for what flywheel to put in my car. its not going to be making huge power on the motor (under 300ish) but should be up around 475-500 on the bottle so at that point its going to be hitting the tires pretty hard to begin with and i know im going to end up breaking the T5 and going to go to an A5 set up and a different disk (26 spline). not sure if i should just do an aluminum one to help save the trans a little bit or just put a billet steel in it and let the bitch eat
 
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RatStang

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#24
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #24
90lxcoupe said:
thats kind of a blanket statement. There are alot of other factors, tire choice, how good track prep is, where the motor makes power, launch RPM... theres a few more factors to keep in mind
Click to expand...

... and just to throw some more BS into the mix...

I'm thinking that for a track car (think quarter mile) running DOT tires or 10.5s and either a turbo or centri blower that the aluminum might be the better choice (generally) where higher rpm clutch drops might be the launch method of the day without ripping the tires clear of the track surface.

Something running silly gas, or a PD blower (read: makes torque now), might launch form a lower RPM and need that extra rotating mass to to get that grunt off the line.


Then another concept just occured to me. Let's say the transmission and rear end are geared so that with current HP, we cross the exit line 3/4 of the way through 4th gear. Increasing or decreasing the weight/mass of the flywheel might be the easiest thing to do in order to tune the launch and ensure we finish at the top of the power band on the far side as power increases with mods, tuning, etc.

I'm sure this thread is only reinventing the wheel but the info you find on this sort of thing is usually very one sided.
 
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RatStang

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#25
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #25
srtthis said:
yea... i should have said rule of thumb i guess


im at a toss up for what flywheel to put in my car. its not going to be making huge power on the motor (under 300ish) but should be up around 475-500 on the bottle so at that point its going to be hitting the tires pretty hard to begin with and i know im going to end up breaking the T5 and going to go to an A5 set up and a different disk (26 spline). not sure if i should just do an aluminum one to help save the trans a little bit or just put a billet steel in it and let the bitch eat
Click to expand...

Question: Will you launch with the nitrous or will it come on after launch?
 

90lxcoupe

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#26
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #26
DontGivaRatz said:
... and just to throw some more BS into the mix...

I'm thinking that for a track car (think quarter mile) running DOT tires or 10.5s and either a turbo or centri blower that the aluminum might be the better choice (generally) where higher rpm clutch drops might be the launch method of the day without ripping the tires clear of the track surface.
Click to expand...

Radials yes, the aluminum i think is better, but not on any kind of bias ply. I was running a 10.5 stiff wall and it still had a slight bog even off the limiter.
 
R

RatStang

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#27
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #27
90lxcoupe said:
Radials yes, the aluminum i think is better, but not on any kind of bias ply. I was running a 10.5 stiff wall and it still had a slight bog even off the limiter.
Click to expand...

You're probably right. You'd need the setup necessary to carry the car through the "grunt" of launching.


Know what would be sweet? A flywheel where a set of weights could be swapped out through the inspection panel.

Figure out your launch method and fine tune by adding/removing weight from the flywheel. I bet somebody already makes such a thing.
 

srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end
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#28
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #28
DontGivaRatz said:
Question: Will you launch with the nitrous or will it come on after launch?
Click to expand...

going to be on a window switch from 3200-5400 and coming off a 2 step at 5500-5600. so basicly as soon as i let off the clutch
 

Noobz347

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#29
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #29
I'd be on the fence with that setup. Lightweight flywheel - rotating assy take the brunt. Steel flywheel - tranny takes the brunt.
 

90lxcoupe

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#30
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #30
DontGivaRatz said:
Know what would be sweet? A flywheel where a set of weights could be swapped out through the inspection panel.

Figure out your launch method and fine tune by adding/removing weight from the flywheel. I bet somebody already makes such a thing.
Click to expand...


why reinvent the wheel? Thats why they make slipper clutches

not to mention that you could not do that without screwing the whole balance of the engine up
 

Shaolin Crane

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#31
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #31
Noobz347 said:
I'd be on the fence with that setup. Lightweight flywheel - rotating assy take the brunt. Steel flywheel - tranny takes the brunt.
Click to expand...

for a drag car yes, but on a high speed road course car, or auto-x where the car is already moving aluminum makes it giddy up a whole lot faster, mmmmm reving to 7k on a road course
 

srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end
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#32
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #32
90lxcoupe said:
why reinvent the wheel? Thats why they make slipper clutches

not to mention that you could not do that without screwing the whole balance of the engine up
Click to expand...

yes you could

would just need to remove the flywheel to do it right and have the "rings" be located off dowel pins and have the proper imbalance to them. basicly you would need to have a 0 balance flywheel and have weighted rings for 50oz imbalance at different a few different thickness. it wouldnt be cheap but it could be done.
 

90lxcoupe

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#33
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #33
srtthis said:
yes you could

would just need to remove the flywheel to do it right and have the "rings" be located off dowel pins and have the proper imbalance to them. basicly you would need to have a 0 balance flywheel and have weighted rings for 50oz imbalance at different a few different thickness. it wouldnt be cheap but it could be done.
Click to expand...

If you took the trans and clutch out, but the post i replied to said you would put them on thru the "inspection panel" on the bellhousing, which isnt going to happen, and even if it was somehow possible it would be unrealistic that it could be done that way without disrupting the balance
 

srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end
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#34
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #34
90lxcoupe said:
If you took the trans and clutch out, but the post i replied to said you would put them on thru the "inspection panel" on the bellhousing, which isnt going to happen, and even if it was somehow possible it would be unrealistic that it could be done that way without disrupting the balance
Click to expand...

yea that makes a bit harder. i must have missed that part.
 

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?
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#35
  • Jan 10, 2011
  • #35
I don't know how many of y'all are outdoorsmen, but the shimano company has been applying this principal to fishing reels for years to adjust reel speed when casting. They have six pins on the end of the spool the radiate outward, each pin holding a weight that snaps to an up or down position, moving mass as needed.

Having a machine trade background, I could see where individual precision weights could be bolted symetrically into and out of pockets machined in a flywheel to tune mass. They'd just have to be very close tolerance and added absolutely symetrical. Large rotating equipment in powerplants and chemical plants are field balanced with bolt in weight all the time. The idea isn't that far fetched.
 

90lxcoupe

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#36
  • Jan 11, 2011
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Its not far fetched, its just not worth the hassle
 

Noobz347

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#37
  • Jan 11, 2011
  • #37
90lxcoupe said:
why reinvent the wheel? Thats why they make slipper clutches

not to mention that you could not do that without screwing the whole balance of the engine up
Click to expand...

A slipper clutch though, wouldn't change the rotating mass. A replaceable set of weights would need to be a matched set.

The flywheel would have the imbalance (if applicable) already built in. The weight set would need to be a complete set and removed and replaced as a complete set. Each set would be balanced for zero so that the the imbalance of the flywheel would remain unchanged.
 

90lxcoupe

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#38
  • Jan 11, 2011
  • #38
ok well how about this, its a stupid idea, if you look at the original post i replied to it was made in reference to a drag car so it had some adjustment in getting the car to leave right. Hence, a slipper clutch..........................

If you wanted to change the rotational mass then why would you bother going thru all that trouble with weights and sht, just have a steel flywheel and a aluminum one on hand. one or the other would work in just about any situation
 

Mr. Rustypwnz

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#39
  • Jan 11, 2011
  • #39
Shaolin Crane said:
for a drag car yes, but on a high speed road course car, or auto-x where the car is already moving aluminum makes it giddy up a whole lot faster, mmmmm reving to 7k on a road course
Click to expand...

on my car i think it helped alot, mine will go 7k rpm on a daily basis, and I think i would have alot more trans trouble if i had that extra weight to sling around.
 

Shaolin Crane

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#40
  • Jan 11, 2011
  • #40
Mr. Rustypwnz said:
on my car i think it helped alot, mine will go 7k rpm on a daily basis, and I think i would have alot more trans trouble if i had that extra weight to sling around.
Click to expand...

I dont doubt it, plus its alot less stress on the rotating assembly.
 
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