Finished prototype Mustang disc brake spindles

Edbert · Jun 9, 2005

You guys are making my head hurt...anisotropic indeed!

68rustang · Jun 9, 2005

meanroy said:
Interestingly, both casting and forging sources state evaluating by test should be part of the design process.

This is a proven design that should just need verification of the manufacturing processes.

degins · Jun 9, 2005

Jester67 said:
I’m never 100% sure of anything but the last time I put a tape on them I thought it was about 11” I will check again tonight if I get the chance.

Jester,
My comment regarding 65-66 was concerning the fact that the spindle used was not designed for disc brake applications. The spindle was designed for a 10" drum brake application. The size of the rotor was not the issue.

The point that I was trying to make was that the same folks that will claim that I need to perform extensive road testing on my parts will gleefully rush to slap a garage made bracket on their fatigued 40 year old spindles designed for 10" drums and install 13" rotors.

65mistress · Jun 9, 2005

Well with all sincerity, I hope that you do well with your new venture. I hope it works out for you.

meanroy · Jun 9, 2005

testing

degins said:
Jester,
My comment regarding 65-66 was concerning the fact that the spindle used was not designed for disc brake applications. The spindle was designed for a 10" drum brake application. The size of the rotor was not the issue.

The point that I was trying to make was that the same folks that will claim that I need to perform extensive road testing on my parts will gleefully rush to slap a garage made bracket on their fatigued 40 year old spindles designed for 10" drums and install 13" rotors.

Actually, I agree that as this is a well proven design, design testing is certainly not as critical as it wuld be for a "fresh" design.

The thing is you HAVE changed the alloy, and sometimes you get surprises in the heat treating process.
Road testing as a couple of the other fellows have recommended will NOT show up limit deficiencies unless you drive so hard it breaks. I bet you'd have a hard time collecting volunteers for that little exercise!

You are of course right about "... gleefully rush to slap a garage made bracket on their fatigued 40 year old spindles designed for 10" drums and install 13" rotors.", but at least with, for example, Opentrackers UCA mod, he has nicely tested it on a track for us. (Of course if you make your own, you'd better hope your welds are as good as his!)

I think you have a beautiful design and it surely was a massive amount of work. It would still be nice to test a couple of parts to the breaking point or at least the design limit to gain a "warm and comfy" feeling before rushing out to run at 150 oro 200 mph on a road course.

(yes, yes, I know, "Not intended for racing")

I hope you will take all this as constructive, I wish I'd done what you have, it's a damn nice looking part.

Roy.

HistoricMustang · Jun 9, 2005

degins said:
I stand by what I said. I don't know historic, so I don't know what his problem is with me. Isn't it interesting how passionate and rude some people will get concerning things they have no real real interest in. Then again, perhaps they do!

Just wanted to run up the flag before the teenagers making $5.00 and hour go out and buy parts.

Still a little concerned why the moderators are allowing more and more selling on the forum. I get enough of that crap everywhere else on this planet!

The posters that have been around awhile understand my feelings on going fast so yes indeed I have an interest in spindles!

Happy Motoring!

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

degins · Jun 9, 2005

HistoricMustang said:
Just wanted to run up the flag before the teenagers making $5.00 and hour go out and buy parts.

Still a little concerned why the moderators are allowing more and more selling on the forum. I get enough of that crap everywhere else on this planet!

The posters that have been around awhile understand my feelings on going fast so yes indeed I have an interest in spindles!

Happy Motoring!

HistoricMustang

I don't believe that any merchandise has been offered or is available to sell.

x

TT670 · Jun 9, 2005

HistoricMustang said:
Just wanted to run up the flag before the teenagers making $5.00 and hour go out and buy parts.

Still a little concerned why the moderators are allowing more and more selling on the forum. I get enough of that crap everywhere else on this planet!

The posters that have been around awhile understand my feelings on going fast so yes indeed I have an interest in spindles!

Happy Motoring!

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

HUH? Are you mental or just fond of stirring the pot? A guy posts about his pet project and now he's selling on the forums? Ive been reading your posts for a long time and although Ill admit its obvious you like to go fast and do a good job of it according to your listed achievements, its also obvious you like to criticize they guys with the "better" ideas. Sure Carrol Shelby did a good job in 1965, but so did the apollo space program, however you wouldnt catch an astronaut in one today. If you like to run old tech thats fine, but dont criticize those that do....technology is good.

meanroy · Jun 9, 2005

Come again?

TT670 said:
HUH? Are you mental or just fond of stirring the pot? A guy posts about his pet project and now he's selling on the forums? Ive been reading your posts for a long time and although Ill admit its obvious you like to go fast and do a good job of it according to your listed achievements, its also obvious you like to criticize they guys with the "better" ideas. Sure Carrol Shelby did a good job in 1965, but so did the apollo space program, however you wouldnt catch an astronaut in one today. If you like to run old tech thats fine, but dont criticize those that do....technology is good.

I didn't read anywhere Historic dumping on technology. There were some discussions about testing.

There is nothing wrong in my book about discussing future availability of a thing like this, others disagree, Historic included, thats ok.

Roy.

degins said:
About $300 for a set with new shields and combo/proportioning valve.

Well I guess technicallythats not an offer.

ozstang65 · Jun 10, 2005

It's good to see someone who actually believes that they can make a better product for our vintage Mustang's put their money where their mouth is by making that part available for everyone. Well done degins!

If a potential product is presented to a forum such as this for comment, then politely point out possible shortcomings and, if you like, suggest improvements. Just don't bag an idea because it's $%*t-hot and you didn't think of it! (or have the ba!!s to see that idea through to production.)

Also, it is apparent, quite a few of us have engineering backgrounds (not just the backyard variety either). Constructive criticism is always warranted during a new product's design process - especially from it's potential users. Keep it constructive and everyone wins. (and we don't fill up very informative threads with and backstabbing)

Now, for a question about the product. There are numerous kits out there to correct these spindle's shortcomings in the area of bump-steer. Is it possible to offer a variation of the steering arm section of the spindle to correct this? (of course this design would need some testing )

P.S. I have seen some steering components -from the factory - that leave a lot to be desired, ball joint tapers way off-centre etc. Just because it's 'from the factory' doesn't necessarily mean it's the best!

TT670 · Jun 10, 2005

meanroy said:
I didn't read anywhere Historic dumping on technology. There were some discussions about testing.

There is nothing wrong in my book about discussing future availability of a thing like this, others disagree, Historic included, thats ok.

Roy.

Well I guess technicallythats not an offer.

Youre right he's not dumping on tech in this thread, Im generalizing based on past reading. Playing devils advocate is one thing but twisting someones words and intent is different. I dont dispute for 1 moment historics intent is good, how he sometimes presents it is where I have an issue.

meanroy · Jun 10, 2005

ozstang65 said:
...
Now, for a question about the product. There are numerous kits out there to correct these spindle's shortcomings in the area of bump-steer. Is it possible to offer a variation of the steering arm section of the spindle to correct this? (of course this design would need some testing )

Great question!
If a steering arm mod were made it might be possible to put together a R&P setup with the same turning radius as the original!

Roy.

68rustang · Jun 10, 2005

Then it would have to be tested.

meanroy · Jun 10, 2005

68rustang said:
Then it would have to be tested.

I volunteer!
When can I pick up the parts?

krash kendall · Jun 10, 2005

ozstang65 said:
Now, for a question about the product. There are numerous kits out there to correct these spindle's shortcomings in the area of bump-steer. Is it possible to offer a variation of the steering arm section of the spindle to correct this? (of course this design would need some testing )

I believe (from reading this and other posts by degins) that he is doing exactly this for the '65-'66 knuckles, as this seems to be a problem for these years when granada parts are used.

1320stang · Jun 10, 2005

Yean, what he's done was to combine the Granada spindle and caliper mount area with the '67-'70 geometry where it mouonts to the car. He'll also be doing this with the '65-'66 knuckles.

degins · Jun 10, 2005

krash kendall said:
I believe (from reading this and other posts by degins) that he is doing exactly this for the '65-'66 knuckles, as this seems to be a problem for these years when granada parts are used.

krash,
That's right. I intend to relocate the outer tie rod mounting hole on a future version of a reproduction Granada based Knuckle to conform to original steering geometry. I think many of you may might be suprised by how little that change will be.

degins · Jun 10, 2005

1320stang said:
Yean, what he's done was to combine the Granada spindle and caliper mount area with the '67-'70 geometry where it mouonts to the car. He'll also be doing this with the '65-'66 knuckles.

1320stang,
Actually, Granada and 67-73 steering geometry are identical. No adjustment was made or is necessary. A small adjustment will be mage for the 65-66 version.

Thanks all for the interest and constructive comments.

Scarebird · Jul 22, 2005

I am quite impressed of the scope of what Degins is doing- some of you have no clue as to the headaches something like this can bring. We make disc conversion brackets for many applications, and like Degins said, there are issues with the early Mustang spindles, so we limited the rotor size to 10-1/4", so the moment will be identical to the stock 10" drums.

We use simple statics to analyse the stresses, and design accordingly.

degins · Jul 23, 2005

Scarebird said:
I am quite impressed of the scope of what Degins is doing- some of you have no clue as to the headaches something like this can bring. We make disc conversion brackets for many applications, and like Degins said, there are issues with the early Mustang spindles, so we limited the rotor size to 10-1/4", so the moment will be identical to the stock 10" drums.

We use simple statics to analyse the stresses, and design accordingly.

Scarebird,
Thanks for the kind words. I am going to receive my 3rd and I think last prototype next week. You can understand the issues of establishing correct dimensional specs even with CNC equipment. Those specs and the metallurgy have been worked out. These spindles will use alloy steel that is about 30% better in tensile and yield strength with equal elongation properties. There will be those that doubt the efficacy of static analysis and correct design no matter the facts. It is ironic that many of those people are the same ones that are eager to stick 13" rotors on their old original spindles.

Like you, I think there is a market for a basic economical disk brake swap for our Mustangs. I am not all that tolerant of bling for bling's sake. IMO those that seek this will not be buying our products.

Finished prototype Mustang disc brake spindles

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