Finished prototype Mustang disc brake spindles

degins · Jul 27, 2005

"Can't we just all get along"

67coupe351w said:
I'm not saying you have to be destructive to have a good test. I'll have to get ahold of that book. I'm just sayin theres more to vehicle suspension than Statics, thats all. We should quit before this poor guy's thread gets locked

Agreed on the last point. I think that you all have a point. In my case, in which a part is being reproduced, I hope that we can all agree that attention to dimension, metallurgy and process are sufficient to produce an equivalent part.

By the way, the final (I hope) prototype has just been machined. I'll have the parts in my hands next week and will begin my QA. Thanks for all of the input.

ADub64 · Jul 27, 2005

F=0 is not the case in statics. Statics assumes that the forces are balanced. This means that the body acted upon by these forces is at rest or has a net uniform motion. So in statics, the acceleration of the body is 0.

If you really want to analyze the spring/damper system, you need to use dynamics. I agree that this is not necessary to analyze the forces on the spindle.

Edbert · Jul 27, 2005

Sheesh guys, you're out into some deep weeds here. If the new spindles are made to the same dimensions using superior methods and materials then they'll be fine. Doesn't take a PhD to figure that out.

Besides PhD only means "Piled Higher and Deeper". The biggest idiots I've ever been around or worked with had PhDs.

John Z · Jul 27, 2005

Edbert said:
Besides PhD only means "Piled Higher and Deeper". The biggest idiots I've ever been around or worked with had PhDs.

I guess I resemble that remark. Just about every degreed engineer out their learned their trade from PhD's.

ADub64 · Jul 27, 2005

I don't know about that. Most of the engineering I've learned didn't come from school. The engineering degree teaches you how to solve problems.

67coupe351w · Jul 27, 2005

ADub64 said:
F=0 is not the case in statics.

I left out the summation symble --> (the sum of forces) = 0. which is like you said, when the sum of forces is zero there is no acceleration. Not nessicarly no motion.

I also like what you said that an engineering degree does nothing more than teach you how to solve problems. That really is true, its a great foundation for anything a person would like to move on to.

jbuening · Jul 28, 2005

ADub64 said:
I don't know about that. Most of the engineering I've learned didn't come from school. The engineering degree teaches you how to solve problems.

I totally agree. Being a structural engineer that is a little over a year out of college i can say it is mostly true. College can only teach you the basics and the true knowledge comes from on-the-job training and experience. One could have 10 years of engineering school knowledge and still know much much less than someone with 10 years of actual engineering experience. The funny thing about engineering is that you can have 20 years of experience and still not know everything. A great engineer doesn't know it all, he knows where to find it

68converted · Dec 27, 2005

Thought I would bring the thread back. What ever happened with the last prototype? Are the spindles being made? Who is selling them for you, how much are they? Etc......

krash kendall · Dec 28, 2005

68converted said:
Thought I would bring the thread back. What ever happened with the last prototype? Are the spindles being made? Who is selling them for you, how much are they? Etc......

His website and more info is in this thread from a week or so ago. More arguing too.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=601406&highlight=degins

HistoricMustang · Dec 28, 2005

Edbert said:
Sheesh guys, you're out into some deep weeds here. If the new spindles are made to the same dimensions using superior methods and materials then they'll be fine. Doesn't take a PhD to figure that out.

Besides PhD only means "Piled Higher and Deeper". The biggest idiots I've ever been around or worked with had PhDs.

Yep, all it takes is some road testing but for some reason that seems to be a "no - no" for all the new stuff popping up here at StangNet. The last example actually has some welds involved in the brake caliper brackets! Go figure.....................

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

degins · Dec 28, 2005

HistoricMustang said:
Yep, all it takes is some road testing but for some reason that seems to be a "no - no" for all the new stuff popping up here at StangNet.

How much road testing? What's the point of road testing? The Granada spindle is certainly a time tested design. So assuming the new spindle conforms to the original's dimensional design, the only reasonable purpose for road testing could be to validate the strength or the failure properties. Well, there are better ways of testing failure properties. I would venture to say that the chance of me, or you, discovering a fault by road testing are remote. Destructive analysis in a lab is a more objective and accurate method. These test have demonstrated that the new spindles and brackets are stronger than the originals.

degins · Dec 28, 2005

68converted said:
Thought I would bring the thread back. What ever happened with the last prototype? Are the spindles being made? Who is selling them for you, how much are they? Etc......

The 1st batch has been produced and is in transit. They had been held up in a rail yard for two weeks. They are on their last leg now. I'm pissed, but can't do anything about it. I won't get them until after the new year. I'll post on availability on my website.

http://www.discbrakeswap.com

strange65 · Dec 28, 2005

You guys forgot one thing

I owned mustangs ever since I was 14.
Mustangs were built by ford with a POS tin suspension that everyone has been trying to improve on since. The defects the factory built into mustang's is legendary. They have cowl , suspension , overheating , rusting issues.
Anything is a improvement, I would try these no questions asked.

1320stang · Dec 29, 2005

The Mustang was designed as a cheap car for the masses, much like the VW Bug which is also known for it's problems. I don't think Ford had any thought of the car still being around now, not that they're not pleased.

SNAKEPILOT · Jan 5, 2006

Spindle compatibility with other brakes

Will the Granada/65-73 spindles work with brake kits from Baer, Wilwood, and SSBC? I would like to use the new spindles with Global West Pro-Vintage (Wilwood) Brakes. Will the different sized caliper bracket bolts be an issue?

strange65 · Jan 5, 2006

SNAKEPILOT said:
Will the Granada/65-73 spindles work with brake kits from Baer, Wilwood, and SSBC? I would like to use the new spindles with Global West Pro-Vintage (Wilwood) Brakes. Will the different sized caliper bracket bolts be an issue?

Good question, but I would like to know if the 66-65 specific spindle would work with the granada rotor?

degins · Jan 5, 2006

SNAKEPILOT said:
Will the Granada/65-73 spindles work with brake kits from Baer, Wilwood, and SSBC? I would like to use the new spindles with Global West Pro-Vintage (Wilwood) Brakes. Will the different sized caliper bracket bolts be an issue?

I don't think so, I believe that those kits are made to fit onto drum brake spindles. The Granada spindles are disc brake spindles. The difference being that disc brake spindles have the caliper bracket mounted to the spindle arms, not the flange.

strange65 said:
Good question, but I would like to know if the 66-65 specific spindle would work with the granada rotor?

If the 65-66 specific spindle, that you mention, is the one that I am working on, yes. The spindle will be identical to the Granada spindle except that it will have 65-66 steering arm geometry (a little longer, lower, and outboard as compared to Granada and 67-73 spindles). The new spindle will also have 65-66 specific outer tie rod mounting holes in 6 cylinder and 8 cylinder models. I will also try to source or manufacture a 4 lug Granada configured rotor for 6 cylinder applications.

Update on my new spindles. The spindles and rotors have been held up in rail transit for over 3 weeks. I will be able to take delivery next week and kits will ship shortly. Thanks to all of you that have written to me.

Edbert · Jan 6, 2006

SNAKEPILOT said:
Will the Granada/65-73 spindles work with brake kits from Baer, Wilwood, and SSBC?

That depends on WHICH kit from those manufacturers you mean. They have many kits for all kinds of performance oriented cars, I'm not so sure about the Granada, but wasn't it essentially a Fox chassis-wise?

I put a Wilwood kit on my rear, but they did not offer a 13" kit for the front of my car that used factory (disc or drum) spindles. I think they had one that cost over $2K, but none of their main kits were that large. I spoke with Wilwood's tech department and GW does make a 13" rotor that uses Wilwood calipers and brackets, maybe that is what you are thinking of?

It was easier and cheaper for me to use SN95-Cobra front brakes though.

SNAKEPILOT · Jan 6, 2006

Global West uses 70-73 spindles with their brake kits and a special aluminum hub to maintain the factory wheel offset. However, GW isn't selling the kits with spindles anymore because they don't have any spindles. GW mentioned NPD as a source for spindles but said they were out of stock (I called, they are). GW also said that the Granada spindles would work.
Degins, do you make the spindles for NPD? You may want to talk to GW and market your spindles with their kits.

Route666 · Jan 6, 2006

degins said:
I don't think so, I believe that those kits are made to fit onto drum brake spindles. The Granada spindles are disc brake spindles. The difference being that disc brake spindles have the caliper bracket mounted to the spindle arms, not the flange.

As it is becoming increasingly clear to me, something I learned and I should have believed in more is that I don't need to know HOW something works, just the interfaces, and how I can use it.

With that said,

What outer tie-rods will fit your knuckle?
What brake system are they intended for? Granada disc brakes? (for the 70 caliper bracket that you are going to do at a later date, I assume it will be 70 Mustang disc brakes)

I ask that because Baer do offer a lot of disc spindle kits, and a source of confusion for me is that they offer a 70 kit and a 71-73 kit, whereas knuckles are grouped into 70-73. Is there a different caliper bracket in 71-73 or something?

What makes 70 different from 71-73 wrt brakes?

Also, when you have the 70 caliper brackets, are the spindles going to have different holes for the different bolt (9/16 and 7/16 VS 1/2 and 7/16 for Granada as you said on the first page, last post) or will both brackets go onto the EXACT same knuckle?

Keep us posted on updates please!

Finished prototype Mustang disc brake spindles

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