forgged internals and Twin turbo

[Newbie143]

If i forged my internals, can i slap any forced indoction ( SC, Twin turbo..etc) withought a tune?? I meann can it hurt my car even though i'm all forged??lets just say i CANT get to a dyno to tune the car. will runing it withought a tune whatsoever hurt it!?
thx

 

[RedGTvert]

You cannot run any power adder on factory settings. Why would you want to spend all that money and not get tuned.

 

[Indiana]

Yes, you can still grenade a forged engine. Tune into the NHRA drag races for frequent examples.

 

[Dragstr05]

Forged doesnt mean indestructible...they are just stronger than the cast iron/aluminum/etc internals. If you are not going to get a tune, then forged induction is pointless.

However, if you add forged internals, but keep the C/R the same, I would think that using the chip supplied with many supercharger kits would do just fine. Some people still prefer a custom tune, but some kits do in fact come with a chip you can put in your ECU that should work just fine.

 

[hotmustang331]

^forged induction??? LOL, I know....anyways yea if say you forge your motor and put in the supplied ship...you MAY be okay, but I WOULD AT LEAT put it on a dyno to check A/F ratio BEFORE you even nail it once or get into any boost....im driving to georgia to get mine tuned when the TTs go on and im in TX...so yes a tune is that important. FWI a bad tune can cause you to melt/burn a piston even in an N/A motor, and maybe could cause a rod to break...the tune is somewhat like your blood, its kinda like the life of your motor. Bad tune = dead the first time you hit it (very bad tune LOL, like just slapping on TTs and leaving teh stock program in there) ...good tune = many years of happyness. See a supercharger/turbo puts more air down your engine, but with the stock tune/bad tune there is not any more/enough fuel going in to keep the mixture of gas and fuel in a certain ratio (11.5 for FI..13.5 for N/A) and the ratio gets too lean then you have too much heat, and that can A. burn pistons and/or B. cause teh cumbustion chamber to get SOO hot that it actually ignights (sp LOL) the gas ON THE upstroke BEFORE the spark fires...SO the piston is going up but there is an explosion trying to push the piston back down...this creats a TON of force on the rods/crank/pistons and thats why many let go due to a bad tune. Get it tuned to prevent that. BTW thats called detination, and the reason the A/F is 11.5 for FI is because the air that is comeing into the engine is already HOT from being compressed to X amout of PSI (compressing air makes heat) and so that added amout of fuel acts to cool things down more to prevent detination. N/A doesnt need that 11.5 because the air going in is about room temp so it doesnt need to be cooled as much...its heat that causes detination (and timing, but let someone esle who knows more get into that) and a tune basically controls that. Thats the best i can explain it LOL.

 

[02mingreyconv]

I have a horror story that, thank god, ended good.

I purchased a KB 9 psi kit with all the extra goodies. I installed it myself over a weekend with my buddy. We got everything right the first time. Engine fired up, idled normally so we took it out for a spin. The power was awesome! No leaks, no nothing. Pure pleasure.

I wanted to know how much power I was putting down so I took it to a local speed shop to get it dyno'd. I put down decent power but the dyno operator said that I was dangerously lean.

I am pissed by now. The car pulls good and everything seems to be fine and dandy, but apparently I am running lean (which, as stated earlier might cause detonation which will break something internally in the engine). I get in touch with KB and they have a bunch of questions and their final verdict is: "The dyno used a tail pipe sniffer to determine your AF ratio. These are very inaccurate and our supplied tune is good. We have tested 100's of kits and your tune was pulled from our database according to the mods that you have'.

Well, KB designed my supercharger, they have installed 100's of em so they have to be right and the local dyno guys don't know jack **** right. So I continue to drive the car and I beat the piss out of it... who wouldn't? Oh I asked KB if they would recommend a dyno retune and they told me that I would void my warranty if I did that.

8 months later I go to a dyno day with the local SVT club. Thise time we measured the AF with a wideband O2. Guess what. My AF was still sky high (around 14:1 at 3500 rpm). So the dyno operator does not punch it, he is afraid to blow up the engine.

I am so disappointed with the support from KB. They never tried to get back to me after I called a 2nd time and complained about the tune. So I said screw the warranty bc I bet that KB would not have bought me a new engine if it would have blown.

Now I have a safe SCT dyno tune with an AF that is 12:1 across the rpm range. I even picked up 17 hp and 25 tq in the process.

So, yes, you will need a dyno tune if you add a power adder. Don't let the SC companies fool you into believing that their supplied mail order tune is good for your combination. It might be good for 80% of the applications, but how do you know that you belong to that %?

Joe

 

[DBMSTNG]

if you can't go to the dyno, get a Wideband dataloger and the SCT Pro Racer package and tune the car yourself.

 

[Dan_Soprano]

Yes, you can still grenade a forged engine. Tune into the NHRA drag races for frequent examples.

 

[Dan_Soprano]

N/A doesnt need that 11.5 because the air going in is about room temp so it doesnt need to be cooled as much...its heat that causes detination .

Not to put you down bro, good post, but to correct this part on a N/A setup the IAT is MUCH higher then "room temp". Granted a boosted setup is going to run a higher IAT then N/A due to the compression of the air, depending on ECT and OAT, the N/A IAT is going to vary alot also.

Detonation can also be caused by poor fuel ( i.e. Octane on fuel pressure) , vacuum leaks, Timing, HEAT, ect....... Our cars' ECU's use ECT (engine Coolant Temp), IAT ( Inlet Air Temp), and MAF (Mass Air Flow) to determine the proper fuel pressure and timing map for any given condition. If you fail to reset these internal computer values to the proper settings for you setup, the ECU will not adjust, and fuel/spark maps will be hosed most likely causing pre-ignition (detonation). As everyone else said, this is BAD!!

 

[jimfitzgerald]

I blew my forged engine 4 times due to bad tunes and/or fuel system problems with a previous shop. Definitely get a mail order tune with your power adder and use that tune to carefully drive the car to a dyno tuner who knows what he is doing. If you can afford a forged rebuild, power adder, and all the required upgrades to suspension, tranny, and rear-end, you can drive somewhere to get it tuned.

 

[Newbie143]

if you can't go to the dyno, get a Wideband dataloger and the SCT Pro Racer package and tune the car yourself.

is it possible for someone to tune their car all by himself after installing a power adder!!??

 

[DBMSTNG]

is it possible for someone to tune their car all by himself after installing a power adder!!??

yep. SCT will give you what's called a base tune. it's close to a final tune. you'd just need to dial in the A/F ratio and timing. the A/F ratio isn't that hard to do. the timing is a bit more complicated.

 

[mrvax]

I blew my forged engine 4 times due to bad tunes and/or fuel system problems with a previous shop. Definitely get a mail order tune with your power adder and use that tune to carefully drive the car to a dyno tuner who knows what he is doing. If you can afford a forged rebuild, power adder, and all the required upgrades to suspension, tranny, and rear-end, you can drive somewhere to get it tuned.

Thanks, Jim. I can't believe you are putting down over 600rwhp. Incredible. When I visit Georgia...

-Matt