Paint and Body Fox Body Painting 101

Davedacarpainter · Sep 24, 2016

dr hook said:
Thanks @Davedacarpainter . Can anybody point me to the thread with the awesome 4eyed burgundy car that the guy built for his wife? Its the one with the widened rear 03 anniversary wheels. I need to copy the "landing gear" he made to roll the front around.

Do you mean @Trbofox 's '84 t-top coupe?

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/started-the-84-t-top-coupe.772468/page-30

You'll have to snoop his thread a little bit, but it's in there.

dr hook · Sep 24, 2016

Davedacarpainter said:
Do you mean @Trbofox 's '84 t-top coupe?

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/started-the-84-t-top-coupe.772468/page-30

You'll have to snoop his thread a little bit, but it's in there.

That's it! Thanks dave.

Chuckman · Sep 24, 2016

dr hook said:
Thanks @Davedacarpainter . Can anybody point me to the thread with the awesome 4eyed burgundy car that the guy built for his wife? Its the one with the widened rear 03 anniversary wheels. I need to copy the "landing gear" he made to roll the front around.

Thanks for reminding me of that, I gotta pull the front suspension on mine soon and didn't want to lose the mobility I have now with the roller skates.

RaggedGT · Sep 27, 2016

Dave ole' buddy- would you give me some recommendations for primers . And what stages to use them in?

Davedacarpainter · Sep 27, 2016

RaggedGT said:
Dave ole' buddy- would you give me some recommendations for primers . And what stages to use them in?

My new favorite is sherwin williams P30 series. Though any of the manufacturers will work fine. If you buy a more "value" brand, let it harden for a bit of time, like a week or so. They have a tendency to shrink back than the pricier ones. I'm assuming you know to get a two part primer (two part may be three, primer, hardener, and reducer)

When to use it? On almost anything you fill. Like, over bondo, scratches your sand out, feathering out of red/black stripes.

jrichker · Oct 8, 2016

The trim on my Mustang is very faded and dull looking. I have the SEM trim paint but no trim tools or particular skill at removing the trim without bending it. What are your recommendations for painting it? Leave it in place and mask the surrounding area or buy the trim tools and remove it? I am planning to paint all the trim, doors and windshield.

The rusting door frame is scheduled to be lightly sanded to remove the surface rust. Then I will paint it with POR rust inhibitor paint and finally 2 coats of SEM trim paint.

Notice in the attached photo at the right angle there is a gap between the pieces. Was this the original design, or is there something missing, or is it the result of time and weathering?

stykthyn · Oct 8, 2016

jrichker said:
The trim on my Mustang is very faded and dull looking. I have the SEM trim paint but no trim tools or particular skill at removing the trim without bending it. What are your recommendations for painting it? Leave it in place and mask the surrounding area or buy the trim tools and remove it? I am planning to paint all the trim, doors and windshield.

The rusting door frame is scheduled to be lightly sanded to remove the surface rust. Then I will paint it with POR rust inhibitor paint and finally 2 coats of SEM trim paint.

Notice in the attached photo at the right angle there is a gap between the pieces. Was this the original design, or is there something missing, or is it the result of time and weathering?

Ooohh. I'm in the exact same boat. I did the windshield trim and came close to bending it beyond saving. If there's a good way to get them off without using excessive force I'd love to hear it.

CarMichael Angelo · Oct 8, 2016

That trim that surrounds the window is only held on by a couple of little screws, and friction clips. I'd remove it if it were me, it should just pull off the pinch weld. As for the door window frame after that, I'd do exactly as your have described, except that you're probably gonna have to sand the rust to bare metal. And in that case, I'd also spray SEM etching primer first before the SEM trim black. For the run channel, it looks like it needs replacing. It's one piece, Installing the new rubber just stuffs into the window frame, and is forced to follow that inside 90 degree turn.
Your's is all crotchedy and broken, that's why there's a gap there.

Davedacarpainter · Oct 8, 2016

jrichker said:
The trim on my Mustang is very faded and dull looking. I have the SEM trim paint but no trim tools or particular skill at removing the trim without bending it. What are your recommendations for painting it? Leave it in place and mask the surrounding area or buy the trim tools and remove it? I am planning to paint all the trim, doors and windshield.

The rusting door frame is scheduled to be lightly sanded to remove the surface rust. Then I will paint it with POR rust inhibitor paint and finally 2 coats of SEM trim paint.

Notice in the attached photo at the right angle there is a gap between the pieces. Was this the original design, or is there something missing, or is it the result of time and weathering?

Pretty much what mike said. I would definitely pull the trim off though. You'll be able to see the back side and see if it needs to be cleaned up as well.

You'll get a better paint job on the frame that way as well.

As for the trim tool for around the windshield and rear glass, a version of this tool will do the trick

You slip it underneath the trim from the glass side. Just think of what you're wanting to do with it. You want the pointy ends to slip under the edge of the metal clip and bend THE CLIP so the trim can be pulled up and out. They only cost about $5 at HF.

If you're putting enough force that you might bend your trim, you're not doing it right. Go slowly and put steady pressure on the door trim and you'll be ok. If you can't pop the trim up on the windshield pretty easy, you're not bending the clip back far enough.

I'll post some pictures of this when i pull the trim off of my blue car.

You can do what you said concerning paint. Couple things though, one, if you use POR15, let it dry completely and scuff it before spraying the SEM trim paint.

BTW, POR15 doesn't require an etch primer to adhere. Fact is, i bet the acid doesn't play well with it. Probably will cause a breakdown of the material like it will with epoxy primers.

As for the picture of the trim, yes, that's the way it was made.

jrichker · Oct 8, 2016

Davedacarpainter said:
Pretty much what mike said. I would definitely pull the trim off though. You'll be able to see the back side and see if it needs to be cleaned up as well.

You'll get a better paint job on the frame that way as well.

As for the trim tool for around the windshield and rear glass, a version of this tool will do the trick
You slip it underneath the trim from the glass side. Just think of what you're wanting to do with it. You want the pointy ends to slip under the edge of the metal clip and bend THE CLIP so the trim can be pulled up and out. They only cost about $5 at HF.

If you're putting enough force that you might bend your trim, you're not doing it right. Go slowly and put steady pressure on the door trim and you'll be ok. If you can't pop the trim up on the windshield pretty easy, you're not bending the clip back far enough.

I'll post some pictures of this when i pull the trim off of my blue car.

You can do what you said concerning paint. Couple things though, one, if you use POR15, let it dry completely and scuff it before spraying the SEM trim paint.

BTW, POR15 doesn't require an etch primer to adhere. Fact is, i bet the acid doesn't play well with it. Probably will cause a breakdown of the material like it will with epoxy primers.

As for the picture of the trim, yes, that's the way it was made.

Thanks for the advice, I will definitely start looking for one of the trim tools here locally.

stykthyn · Oct 8, 2016

Only thing I can add from my experience is to purchase a new set of clips before hand. The old ones will be corroded and either break during removal or warp making reinstall nearly impossible.

Davedacarpainter · Oct 8, 2016

+1 to @stykthyn 's comment about the clips.

Black1987 · Oct 12, 2016

@Davedacarpainter

You ever spray Eastwoods Rat Rod Black kit? I usually keep my car in Nason (Napa) Acrylic sealer black and it holds up well, but saw that kit and wondered

Davedacarpainter · Oct 12, 2016

Black1987 said:
@Davedacarpainter

You ever spray Eastwoods Rat Rod Black kit? I usually keep my car in Nason (Napa) Acrylic sealer black and it holds up well, but saw that kit and wondered

When I painted Mike's black on his hood I think it was a PPG product called Hot Rod Black. It was was a two part paint (meaning hardened). @madmike1157 ?

Bu, no, not Eastwood's specifically. Probably the same quality as any of the other single stage matte blacks out there. Meaning it's probably a decent product.

Davedacarpainter · Oct 13, 2016

Ok, @RaggedGT has dogged me severely so I'm going to show my repair of my wonderful "new" rear bumper for my blue car.

Today, I'm just going to show you the pictures of the bumper (I picked it up from the salvage yard today).

Once you look at the pictures of the bumper you may ask yourself why in the hell am I repairing that piece of crap.

There are no aftermarket vendors for '79-'84 rear bumpers that I can find, that's why. The mouldings on the bumpers changed throughout the years, so I can't grab a later model bumper.

I'll probably start with the tear in the left side, I am also going to strip all of the old paint off as well.

The repair process will start tomorrow.

So, pictures.

Davedacarpainter · Oct 14, 2016

So I started with the tear today. I first used a razor blade to ops the tear up enough so that it would easily slip back together. When you get a tear in our bumpers, it more than likely the tear will stretch the surrounding plastic a bit.

Once the tear wasn't rubbing against itself I used a heat gun to reshape the dents close by to it. (A tree had grown against mine leaving a dent)

Next, I took my die grinder and started grinding into the tear itself. I want to open a small gap (~.125") that the panel bonding adhesive could flow from the inside to the outside. I beveled the edges of the tear and sanded the immediate area (about 2") with 40 grit to give the adhesive a solid mechanical bond. Outside of that area, I da'd the surrounding area with 80 grit (to about a 3" diameter).

I cleaned the area with soap and water and a wax and grease remover. I also treated the area with a plastic adhesion promoter prior to using the adhesive. This provides a chemical bite into the plastic as well as the mechanical from sanding.

So, to repair the tear I used a 3M product called Panel Bonding Adhesive (3M # 8115). It's used mainly for attaching new quarter panels, bedsides and the sort. I used this stuff because it's incredibly strong after it is catalyzed. Plus it remains flexible! Good sht!

I also used webbed dry wall tape to reinforce the back side of the repair. You can use fiberglass mesh too, I just really like dry wall tape.

I squeezed out a small amount of the adhesive on the backside of the repair area at first. Enough to hold the mesh tape to the inside surface. After that I put more of the adhesive on a mud spreading board and used a cheap plastic spreader that I had cut down and spread it smoothly over the backside.

Then, on the outside, I put more adhesive directly into the area I had opened up earlier in the tear. I used enough to fill it and spread it relatively smooth over the surface of the surrounding area using the bondo spreader I mentioned earlier. In the pictures you'll notice I spread it over a couple other areas. There where some gouges and gashes there that I filled with the PBA simply because it was easy to do.

Notes about panel bonding adhesive. Wear gloves, oh my god, wear gloves. If you think you've dealt with something that won't come off your skin, you're in for a whole new experience with PBA.

Once it's spread, time to wait. You should wait over night before you try to smooth it, unless, of course, you have a paint booth right next to you that you can heat up to 160 degrees for awhile. Now, where would I find one of those.......?

The PBA can be sanded similar to bondo. I'll use 80 then 180 grit to level it and then use some flexible bondo to finish the repair.

Pictures

Last picture is required refreshment when repairing a bumper.

steve86GT · Oct 15, 2016

Davedacarpainter said:
So I started with the tear today. I first used a razor blade to ops the tear up enough so that it would easily slip back together. When you get a tear in our bumpers, it more than likely the tear will stretch the surrounding plastic a bit.

Once the tear wasn't rubbing against itself I used a heat gun to reshape the dents close by to it. (A tree had grown against mine leaving a dent)

Next, I took my die grinder and started grinding into the tear itself. I want to open a small gap (~.125") that the panel bonding adhesive could flow from the inside to the outside. I beveled the edges of the tear and sanded the immediate area (about 2") with 40 grit to give the adhesive a solid mechanical bond. Outside of that area, I da'd the surrounding area with 80 grit (to about a 3" diameter).

I cleaned the area with soap and water and a wax and grease remover. I also treated the area with a plastic adhesion promoter prior to using the adhesive. This provides a chemical bite into the plastic as well as the mechanical from sanding.

So, to repair the tear I used a 3M product called Panel Bonding Adhesive (3M # 8115). It's used mainly for attaching new quarter panels, bedsides and the sort. I used this stuff because it's incredibly strong after it is catalyzed. Plus it remains flexible! Good sht!

I also used webbed dry wall tape to reinforce the back side of the repair. You can use fiberglass mesh too, I just really like dry wall tape.

I squeezed out a small amount of the adhesive on the backside of the repair area at first. Enough to hold the mesh tape to the inside surface. After that I put more of the adhesive on a mud spreading board and used a cheap plastic spreader that I had cut down and spread it smoothly over the backside.

Then, on the outside, I put more adhesive directly into the area I had opened up earlier in the tear. I used enough to fill it and spread it relatively smooth over the surface of the surrounding area using the bondo spreader I mentioned earlier. In the pictures you'll notice I spread it over a couple other areas. There where some gouges and gashes there that I filled with the PBA simply because it was easy to do.

Notes about panel bonding adhesive. Wear gloves, oh my god, wear gloves. If you think you've dealt with something that won't come off your skin, you're in for a whole new experience with PBA.

Once it's spread, time to wait. You should wait over night before you try to smooth it, unless, of course, you have a paint booth right next to you that you can heat up to 160 degrees for awhile. Now, where would I find one of those.......?

The PBA can be sanded similar to bondo. I'll use 80 then 180 grit to level it and then use some flexible bondo to finish the repair.

Pictures

Last picture is required refreshment when repairing a bumper.

Davedacarpainter said:
Tah dah!

Dave...I am new to stangnet and have been following several of the posts related to car paint prep work. I am currently working on a repaint for my 86GT and have found your advice to be extremely helpful! Can you tell me what the official paint color was for the Fox body pics you posted back on April 9th? The car is red but appears to be darker than the "medium canyon red" that ford used.

Davedacarpainter said:
Tah dah!

Davedacarpainter · Oct 15, 2016

steve86GT said:
Dave...I am new to stangnet and have been following several of the posts related to car paint prep work. I am currently working on a repaint for my 86GT and have found your advice to be extremely helpful! Can you tell me what the official paint color was for the Fox body pics you posted back on April 9th? The car is red but appears to be darker than the "medium canyon red" that ford used.

Sure man, my '86 originally was medium canyon red. I wanted to put an updated red on it though.

I chose a toyota color, paint code is 3R3 (barcelona red pearl).

It really pops in the sun light, here's a picture of the left fender in the sun
And the right door

steve86GT · Oct 15, 2016

Thanks for the pics...what a beautiful color! I only have the fenders and doors in primer on mine so far so lots of time to decide. At this point it will be either black or some shade of red.

Davedacarpainter · Oct 17, 2016

Today I stripped the bumper with my more aggressive DA and 180 grit.

After that I sanded into all of the gouged areas with 80grit by hand and started to apply the polyflex (a flexible bondo made for bumpers).

I took sections of about one foot long to repair at a time. Any larger of an area and it begins to feel overwhelming.

I also smoothed out the tear repair area and filled what was left in that repair.

After that I applied a coat of plastic adhesion promoter and then four coats of primer.

After the primer has had a chance to harden, I'll block it with 220 grit and check for any missed damage. I'll repair that and reprimer with two more coats and do a final blocking.

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