fox brakes suck

[jason89gt]

lightweight
man i thought every mustang with disc in the rear stop on a dime! for the longest time i figured my brakes just needed to be replaced, until i did it all and they still suck! i haven't had a chance to check the booster vacuum too much snow and 0 degree weather. if the booster is bad can i go up to a bigger booster with the stock master? or should i just be happy with the stock booster? i did not buy the 89 new but i know it had to stop better when it was new!!!! i had a freakin 84 ford tempo that stopped better!
thanks jason 89gt

 

[9 Deuce GT]

Fox brakes totally suck. I remember many times where I almost rear ended someone. Finally switched to Cobra brakes. Happy.

 

[stangbear427]

I don't know what to tell you guys. My brakes are awsome, and everyone who rides in my car thinks so, and everyone who drives it is surprised- regardless of what they drive. I don't think one person has jumped in the drivers seat and not said at the first stop "wow- good brakes." It's a '91 GT, and nothing has been "performance" upgraded, all stock replacement parts of the highest grade I could get. Fox brakes are one of the easiest jobs to do, and hardest to get perfect. That's why I don't mess with my own brakes anymore, I have an ASE certified master tech do them. I've had three Foxes, and did my own brakes in the first two and thought they were OK. Well over 60,000 miles ago I had him go through the brakes in this one and do all Raybestos premium grade parts, new rotors and drums, drum kits, shoes, pads, lines, etc, etc. Parts and labor I paid over $1000 to have my brakes done by the best around, and I got what I paid for. It still stops like the day they were done almost 3 years ago, and I drive this car hard. I have never, ever, had any problem stopping, almost hit anything or anyone, or had any other complaints about my brakes. They will lock up on command with a gentle stab and haul me down from highly illegal speeds to a stop like a parachute. I have been trying to talk myself into doing a five lug four wheel disc brake conversion for the last two years, but I just can't justify it while these work so well. My dad has a '01 GT with 30,000 pampered miles and ABS, it's looks and drives like a brand new car- mine stops every bit as well as his does or better. I've ridden in many, many Foxes that barely stopped, and they all either did their own brakes or had some hack like the local Midas do them (and they all got the best deal they could, of course). They all talk trash about stock Fox brakes too, and then when they ride with me I put them into the windshield.

 

[Matt90GT]

I don't know what to tell you guys. My brakes are awsome, and everyone who rides in my car thinks so, and everyone who drives it is surprised- regardless of what they drive. I don't think one person has jumped in the drivers seat and not said at the first stop "wow- good brakes." It's a '91 GT, and nothing has been "performance" upgraded, all stock replacement parts of the highest grade I could get. Fox brakes are one of the easiest jobs to do, and hardest to get perfect. That's why I don't mess with my own brakes anymore, I have an ASE certified master tech do them. I've had three Foxes, and did my own brakes in the first two and thought they were OK. Well over 60,000 miles ago I had him go through the brakes in this one and do all Raybestos premium grade parts, new rotors and drums, drum kits, shoes, pads, lines, etc, etc. Parts and labor I paid over $1000 to have my brakes done by the best around, and I got what I paid for. It still stops like the day they were done almost 3 years ago, and I drive this car hard. I have never, ever, had any problem stopping, almost hit anything or anyone, or had any other complaints about my brakes. They will lock up on command with a gentle stab and haul me down from highly illegal speeds to a stop like a parachute. I have been trying to talk myself into doing a five lug four wheel disc brake conversion for the last two years, but I just can't justify it while these work so well. My dad has a '01 GT with 30,000 pampered miles and ABS, it's looks and drives like a brand new car- mine stops every bit as well as his does or better. I've ridden in many, many Foxes that barely stopped, and they all either did their own brakes or had some hack like the local Midas do them (and they all got the best deal they could, of course). They all talk trash about stock Fox brakes too, and then when they ride with me I put them into the windshield.

LMAO!

What ever dude! A 99+ GT will stop 70-0 in about the 130s. your fox if lucky stock will do it in 150-200 feet.

Get some hard numbers here that your stock braking system stops "every bit as well as his does or better".

 

[Mustang5L5]

Well then you can get rear brakes for a 9", much cheaper. Maybe get the explorer rear disks with built in e-brake drum.

-a

Mounting flange is different. They won't bolt up to a Mustang rear

 

[rd]

just did brakes on the 89 gt last july new pads, calipers, rotors, hoses, and flushed the whole system and thebrkes still suck. i know the fox brakes are not the greatest, but the car had to of had better brakes when it was new coming off the production line! the pedal is firm no air in the lines but the pedal is hard and they seem to fade. you have to use a lot of foot pressure to come to a stop. almost impossible to lock them up! maybe it's in the booster? anybody have a suggestion? thanks jason 89 gt

Off the wall item here, but I went through a year of spongy pedal on the Capri. Would go way down then get hard, but the car would still roll. Changed both calipers twice, the master cylinder a couple times, the combo valve once, (try finding that as a nos part!) the wheel cylinders and the brake lines. Still no improvement. Because it has low brake pressure, it glazed the pads and shoes, and got worse.

Jacked the back of the car way up, until the master cylinder was level, and bled the brakes again. Fixed it.

Even after bench bleeding the crap out of all the master cylinders, it seemed that when I installed them they got enough air in there to screw up my braking.

 

[NO_RICE]

You have to adjust the rear drums ALL the time, thats why you get a bunch of dust on your front wheels, chances are the drums are doing about 10% of the stopping and the disks are taking up the other 90. If you get the drums adjusted right it should stop half way decent and the pedal feel should be 100% better, but thats nothing to brag about. Expect to tighten up the drums about every two weeks.

 

[stangbear427]

LMAO!

What ever dude! A 99+ GT will stop 70-0 in about the 130s. your fox if lucky stock will do it in 150-200 feet.

Get some hard numbers here that your stock braking system stops "every bit as well as his does or better".

First of all, I know full well that you are not the guy to argue brakes with. So don't think that's my intention- what I do think is that you're missing my point. Based on the numbers on this page http://maximummotorsports.com/mmbp.asp the average Fox stops from 60 in @129-134 feet. Using their brake upgrade package (which retains factory size rotors and rear drums) distances were brought down to an average of 114 feet- 12-15% better than stock. Therefore, if your numbers are accurate for a '99+, then I should be every bit as good on the street, since you say they do 130's. Nevermind the fact that my '91 is lighter than his '01, has better tires, and has almost $4000 invested in the suspension which as a side benefit of sick handling, also improves braking if they were already working properly- which they were. Good enough to AutoX them? No way. Will they fade if I keep pounding them? I'm sure they would. I wouldn't know, I almost never do more than feather them. I've found that if you pay attention and know how to drive, slamming on the brakes is almost never necessary, especially with a low geared stick car. If you want me to give hard numbers, I'm sure I can arrange pulling my dads GT out of winter storage, and we'll throw my G-tech Pro in there and tell you exactly what they both do, but the point is this isn't the brake test in the Ultimate Street Car Challenge, it's the real world where my car is no more likely to run over the kid chasing the ball than his is. Stock brakes don't suck, if good parts are installed by a knowledgable tech. They may suck on a racetrack, but when Jason opened this thread he said nothing to imply he had anything but a daily driver that was scary to drive because it doesn't stop- and was there any hope with the stock brakes. The answer is yes. A streetcar can stop perfectly well without deviating from the stock equipment if it's done right- but who wants to pay for that- even if they can find someone qualified? I'm the only one around here I know who has, and I'm the only one with a Fox that stops. Go to any Ford garage who has ASE Master or Ford Gold certified techs, and have them completely overhaul the brakes using OEM grade parts instead of AutoZoo crap, and it will never scare you again.

 

[NO_RICE]

This is totally unrelated, but I was looking at your website (stangbear427) and I noticed there is a brace from the bottom of the pumpkin that runs forward, what is that?

 

[stangbear427]

Brace? That's the torque arm. It replaced my upper control arms. You can get a good summery of it here:
http://maximummotorsports.com/ta.asp

 

[Matt90GT]

First of all, I know full well that you are not the guy to argue brakes with. So don't think that's my intention- what I do think is that you're missing my point. Based on the numbers on this page http://maximummotorsports.com/mmbp.asp the average Fox stops from 60 in @129-134 feet. Using their brake upgrade package (which retains factory size rotors and rear drums) distances were brought down to an average of 114 feet- 12-15% better than stock. Therefore, if your numbers are accurate for a '99+, then I should be every bit as good on the street, since you say they do 130's. Nevermind the fact that my '91 is lighter than his '01, has better tires, and has almost $4000 invested in the suspension which as a side benefit of sick handling, also improves braking if they were already working properly- which they were. Good enough to AutoX them? No way. Will they fade if I keep pounding them? I'm sure they would. I wouldn't know, I almost never do more than feather them. I've found that if you pay attention and know how to drive, slamming on the brakes is almost never necessary, especially with a low geared stick car. If you want me to give hard numbers, I'm sure I can arrange pulling my dads GT out of winter storage, and we'll throw my G-tech Pro in there and tell you exactly what they both do, but the point is this isn't the brake test in the Ultimate Street Car Challenge, it's the real world where my car is no more likely to run over the kid chasing the ball than his is. Stock brakes don't suck, if good parts are installed by a knowledgable tech. They may suck on a racetrack, but when Jason opened this thread he said nothing to imply he had anything but a daily driver that was scary to drive because it doesn't stop- and was there any hope with the stock brakes. The answer is yes. A streetcar can stop perfectly well without deviating from the stock equipment if it's done right- but who wants to pay for that- even if they can find someone qualified? I'm the only one around here I know who has, and I'm the only one with a Fox that stops. Go to any Ford garage who has ASE Master or Ford Gold certified techs, and have them completely overhaul the brakes using OEM grade parts instead of AutoZoo crap, and it will never scare you again.

OOPS! I said 70-0 not SIXTY

You want to know what your car will do the 60-0

Oh and take that 70-0 that I refer to and use a car with the m2300K brake package with the stock pads, you get 109 feet. Add some good aftermarket race pads and you will be under 100 feet from 70-0.

I am happy your pedal feels good. it should since you dont have a lot of cash to sit on after paying your ASE mechanic for his overpriced services. But there is no way you will convince or prove with real data that a stock fox3 mustang will outbrake a 99+ GT or any brake upgrades to the car.

 

[Lightweight]

I don't want to argue about braking distance, but I will agree with the idea of having quality parts installed correctly, either by an A$E tech or yourself, is more important than the level of parts that are being installed. A screwed up "Big Money" brake system won't stop nearly as well as a stock system that is done right. This is what I'm dealing with. I have no idea who first installed the discs on my car, but they either didn't know what they were doing, or were trying to do it super cheap. I ran into one guy who claimed he used to own the car for a short while. He told me it had antilock brakes! WTF!! Just cause a car WON'T lock them up, don't mean it's antilock! Obviously, the car has had brake problems for awhile, and he just thought it was something else to brag on! Needless to say, after that "geneius" experience, I've not doubted anything. In all the cars I've had, I've very rarely found fault with stock stuff that Ford put there. It's always been me having to correct what the previous owners screwed up. Since I doubt few of us fox owners can claim to be the original owner. I'd have to guess the problems lean more toward age and history than simply a bad design from Ford...

 

[mattkimsey]

The mm website said the shortest 60-0 stop with their upgrade was 98 ft. I have oem brake parts and my car stops good but when they get bad ill probably get the mm upgrade.

 

[Matt90GT]

A rear drum car will never outstop a 4 wheel disc car. The modulation and leverage is biased to the 4wheel disc car. Also a drum brake car will fade with more than one stop.

FYI, you can retrofit ABS to a pre94 mustang!

 

[quiksilver9531]

the brakes do suck when I first got my mustang..the wheels used to lock up but when I changed the pads they wouldnt lock anymore..but one thing I noticed is these brakes lock up so quickly when its raining or wet out...theres at least 5 times when I almost rear ended someone in the rain because the brakes locked up so quickly...anyone else notice that these brakes lock up very quickly when its wet or rainy?

 

[9 Deuce GT]

Stangbear427, no offense but with the $1000 you are paying a machanic for laobr and parts you could have a nice 5 lug rear disc brake set up that will outperfom stock brakes and you could do the work your self. Invest $1000-$1500 for initial set up, the buy new pads and rotors for under $200 for every time they need replacing. I think that would be way cheaper in the long run.

 

[stangbear427]

That was what I paid almost three years ago, and that was also before I was working at said garage. I am fully aware of what my thousand would buy me now, but at the time it wasn't even something I was thinking about and as of today, it still stops fantastic. I have absolutely no complaints about these brakes, and I drive hundreds of cars so I know what I am and am not missing- and I'm picky. I will still have my tech do them, because I've seen how bad several people more skilled then I am have screwed them up. There are too many four wheel disc cars out there that stop like crap for me to bother doing it myself when now I have a friend that is so overqualified and willing to do them. Additionally, when I do the conversion I'll be changing the rear gears and I don't know which ones I want yet, and the differencial, and the spline. I like to do things once, do them right, and not have to think about them again. By the time I'm done, it won't be a $1500 project anymore by a long shot. It's pointless to do it now, there are too many other things I'm more concerned about to spend my money on then ripping out perfectly good brakes. When they finally wear out, I'll go hog wild on them just like everything else I've done.

 

[PRO50SC]

I must be lucky, the brakes on my 92 work great.

 

[stangbear427]

Thank you.
I notice you are ASE too, imagine that. This is just too ironic to be for real.

 

[91BlckGT]

Yes. Fox brakes suck. That's why I did this:

An astute reader will notice that the last pic in the series is of the other side of the car.

For those interested, I just got done slapping on the Baer Touring kit on the rear. Went with Moser 5-lug axles, and Nitto 275s on 17" Chrome Cobra-R knockoffs.

Working on the M/C plumbing next (need to send my order in to Matt for his 3:2 kit )


Sorry for hyjacking the thread, but I just finished up all this crap, and felt like I had to show it off.