Foxes victims of Cash for Clunkers?

[justabigkid]

I work for a Dodge dealer and we have taken in over 60 cfc cars. Most of them are rusted out aerostar minivans or old conversion vans. Some of the cars look like death traps. But there are a few cars that I just wanted to cry when the tech poured in the engine seizing agent. One was a 92 firebird that was really clean and ran well, and the others were some ford and chevy trucks with V8 engines that would have made many racers happy to have in thier cars.

Now when it comes to electric cars saving the world I just want to tear whats left of my hair out. To charge an electric car it takes as much energy as a A/C unit for a house, and what happens during the summer months when everyone has thier A/c on? Roaming blackouts thats what, so now what is going to happen when everyone comes home from work at 6pm and plugs their cars in? The goverment already knows that the power grid can not handle the strain electric cars would cause. So to expand the power grid where are we going to build the new nuclear power plants??

 

[90mustangGT]

Whats even more amazing is that you can conveniently overlook the 694 BILLION (not to mention thousands of lives) spent overseas on a POINTLESS war that is of no benefit to us whatsoever.

I'm sorry but 3 billion is just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the BS spending that went in the bush administration.

Well since you want to go there we can talk about the trillions this president has spent and hasn't done crap, as well at the last president...

What I am saying is that because the previous administration wasted money is not an excuse, and definatly not a debate ender for another administration to do the same.

What I think this CFC program illistrates more than anything is goverment's faiure to predict cost. I bet when it is all said and done, when you take the total amount of money spent on the CFC program and divide it up by the number of cars it took off the road, that number will be far greater than $4500.

 

[mob]

I dont know why people say Obama hasnt done anything. First of all its only been 8 months? he has a war to end, a torture prison to close, and a tanked economy to fix. AND he is trying to do health care. Rush Limbaugh and Fox news arent helping by going against everything he does for the sole reason to get people against him. Right at about the time Bush left office my dad was laid off. He didnt have a job for 6 months. He just got a job, and his job is actually to HIRE MORE people. Even my work is hiring drivers right now. Fox news may be telling you nothing is going on, and I am not saying the economy is fixed or Obama has fixed it, but things are picking up at least where I am.

 

[90lxcoupe]

Say what you want about the CFC program, I personally think its a waste of energy to whine and complain about something that costs a measly $3 Billion. If those same people really cared about this country's deficit problem, they would have expressed a far greater concern about the $690 Billion money pit that bush created (i.e. iraq war).

In the end, this is just another case of the bitter reps trying to go against EVERYTHING the Democrats try to put into action.

Im no democrap or rebublican, i hate all politicians but is there something wrong with your statement there? did you just say MEASLY and 3 billion in the same sentance?!?!?! $3,000,000,000 is alot of money, and they could be doing something useful with it instead of tryin to "save the trees"

But yea your right lets talk about the war and not the trillions we are spending to get "out" of debt.

$11,665,345,162,779<---- thats a big number, look familiar?

 

[90mustangGT]

Im no democrap or rebublican, i hate all politicians but is there something wrong with your statement there? did you just say MEASLY and 3 billion in the same sentance?!?!?! $3,000,000,000 is alot of money, and they could be doing something useful with it instead of tryin to "save the trees"

But yea your right lets talk about the war and not the trillions we are spending to get "out" of debt.

$11,665,345,162,779<---- thats a big number, look familiar?

Although I agree, I will say this $3bil has done a lot more than any other 3bil the goverment has spent. Can't say that about bailing out the banks and everyone else that I think probally made things worse in the long run. Yes, it did take some cars with bad MPG's off the road, and that does take some gas demand down. Not near enough to even make a dent. So it was kind of a waste. The program DID help dealerships sell some cars, which helped one of the hardest hit industries. It also probally helped out a lot of people who needed it.

I do feel that it is more goverment wastefull spending in the long run. We also have a huge program for first time home buyers that is also getting people into debt. Sorry, but if you never could get a house before, this isn''t the economy to make that kind of commitment.

 

[rbonella]

measly 3 billion?....that's an oxymoron if I ever heard one

 

[rbonella]

With regards to bailing out banks, the u.s had to. If all the big banks went under we would be in much greater trouble today than can be imagined. Be upset about the banks NEEDING to be bailed out. They were handing out money and credit cards and mortgages to people and businesses that had no money. Banks are a business, but bankers are not business people, they thought they could make a bunch of money with high interest rates, but people don't and can't pay the money back..like squeezing water from a rock.
CFC has the same potential, people have the green light to get into new cars they can't afford and now with a record number of people without jobs, the govt thinks that everyone will be able to pay their new car payments which will make the tow truck companies money. Big Picture...auto dealers are selling cars, car manufacturers are selling cars, but who's making all this possible? BANKS! People have to finance these cars, banks now own their cars, and when they can't afford them anymore or get towed, who gets the cars? BANKS! Who has to sell the cars all over again for pennies to the dollar? BANKS! Who are the crappy business men/women? BANKERS! They are doing the same thing that got them into finacial trouble in the first place except this time it's not homes...it's cars, actually both with the first time home buyer incentives!!! Scary

 

[90lxcoupe]

CFC has the same potential, people have the green light to get into new cars they can't afford and now with a record number of people without jobs, the govt thinks that everyone will be able to pay their new car payments which will make the tow truck companies money. Big Picture...auto dealers are selling cars, car manufacturers are selling cars, but who's making all this possible? BANKS! People have to finance these cars, banks now own their cars, and when they can't afford them anymore or get towed, who gets the cars? BANKS!

You hit the nail right on the head...

 

[rbonella]

You were right as well....politicians suck! Politicians pass or decline all of our laws, but they live in a fantasy world. What other profession can "write off" hookers as a work related cost? Oh what a world we live in huh?
Im gonna check myself here, yea our economy is crap, bad times yada yada, but we are still Americans with some independence and freedoms (slowly decreasing) and there are billions of people who don't have food, shelter, security, running H2O, Freedom. We are lucky in the grand scheme of things.
.............And we have college football coming in a few weeks! Go Huskers!

 

[Cancerman]

I work for Acura and we've only gotten on c4c candidate, which was a mid 90's cherokee. It hasnt come through the shop and I dont think we even have the silicate to destory it if we had to.

If I do end up being the one who has to seize the thing, better believe its getting a dealer plate and going offroading first, then the remaining gas will be siphoned diredctly into my DD.

Besides, I dont need chemicals to wreck an engine, Ive done it all by myself plenty of times.

Im all for this. If there gunna bring some BS car in a deal trash the hell out of it before it goes.

If its a nice 85 + mustang thats just jacked. Have some damn Motivation spend at a max 4000 and make a really nice car out of it. It will drive and feel just as nice as a damned kia......

There was a 1989 Notch With a 5 lug Convo, Heads, Headers, and a nice exhaust came through the honda dealership where my friend works. Your damn skippy we stripped that thing before the boss man got ahold of it. It ran.... it just got a bunch of cheap parts we had laying around thrown on it. We kept the good stuff. No way in hell im letting the grim c4c reaper take those with him...

Where you live if you go offroading ill come out in my jeep and pull you back when you blow the motor

.;p3ace;.

 

[white 89 GT]

Say what you want about the CFC program, I personally think its a waste of energy to whine and complain about something that costs a measly $3 Billion. If those same people really cared about this country's deficit problem, they would have expressed a far greater concern about the $690 Billion money pit that bush created (i.e. Iraq war).

In the end, this is just another case of the bitter reps trying to go against EVERYTHING the Democrats try to put into action.

Wrong, it took 100 senators 435 in congress and 1 president to put us in iraq and last I saw out of those 536 half were democrat.
Soon as we realize they are politicians whether Rep or Dem just don`t make any difference, the better off we will be.

 

[FastDriver]

Whats even more amazing is that you can conveniently overlook the 694 BILLION (not to mention thousands of lives) spent overseas on a POINTLESS war that is of no benefit to us whatsoever.

I can't believe you just called me out on this issue. What's worse is that you are dead wrong. Just because I fought in that war and probably will again doesn't mean that I agree that it should have started in the first place (I don't). As a soldier, what i agree with is supporting, defending, and upholding the Constitution of the United States. When my Commander-in-Chief orders me to do something, it becomes my moral and civic duty to carry it out unless it directly contradicts that Constitution. That is why I fought and will do it again. The merits of the war itself are beside the point.

Go take your foot out of your mouth, and if you're man enough, apologize for putting words in mine.

I'm sorry but 3 billion is just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the BS spending that went in the bush administration.

Another ludicrous point! Every time we spend money the decision should depend on the current situation and the given facts. That decision is independent of any unrelated issues in our past. Arguing about what other presidents have wasted money on can never legitimize another waste of funds.

 

[90mustangGT]

There was a 1989 Notch With a 5 lug Convo, Heads, Headers, and a nice exhaust came through the honda dealership where my friend works. Your damn skippy we stripped that thing before the boss man got ahold of it. It ran.... it just got a bunch of cheap parts we had laying around thrown on it. We kept the good stuff. No way in hell im letting the grim c4c reaper take those with him...

You should take the pics and then mail it to Pelosi.

Afterall, it's OUR money.

 

[mob]

Wrong, it took 100 senators 435 in congress and 1 president to put us in iraq and last I saw out of those 536 half were democrat.
Soon as we realize they are politicians whether Rep or Dem just don`t make any difference, the better off we will be.

Obviously it took more than one person to go to war in Iraq. But it was the previous administrations in the end who is to blame. I hate this word but it was the fear mongering, and making people feel patriotic if they supported the war that got people to be in favor of going to war. Only a few smart people were against it, like Obama, even though he was unable to vote, he was against the war from the beginning. When you consider the 10 billion dollars a MONTH we spent in Iraq, 3 billion is a measly amount of money to spend in our own country, that one, came out of the stimulus bill (which was meant to be spent in this manner), and two, has many benefit even if the people dont like paying for it. I dont see how someone can be in favor of paying taxes that go straight to another country for a pointless war when that country has a surplus, but paying .4% (3 billion) of that amount in our own country to help ourselves, Oh my god, how dare the Democrats do that!! Oh and sense you guys are counting pennies and nickels here, I believe the number is 2 billion they have approved to spend.

This program is not going to turn into the home mortgage crisis with cars for a couple reasons. First, houses are a little more expensive than a car, just a little, you dont need to take out a mortgage for your car, which in turn equals a little less monthly payment than a house. Now I am not saying no one is going to lose their car, there are going to be dumb people who buy cars they cannot afford. But, there have been repo men before the economy crisis and there will be after. The CFC program is not MAKING anyone buy a car, it is really just helping anyone needing a new car have a better down payment on a newer, more reliable, more efficient car. I have not read the rules but I believe to qualify for the program your car needs to get under 18mpg, is that correct? Anyways, there will also not be predator car sales men (at least anymore than they already are). Again there will always be pushy sales men trying to get people into a new car so they can keep their job too, but it is up to the person whether or not they can afford the car. I will agree that the rate of repos will probably go up, probably related to people losing there job, and lets face it, people getting into cars they cannot afford, but this has always happened, it is the story of America to buy things they do not have money for, but I do not think it will turn into a crisis, the government is just helping give people a better down payment (with other benefits to other people aswell) not making anyone buy a car.

 

[mob]

I can't believe you just called me out on this issue. What's worse is that you are dead wrong. Just because I fought in that war and probably will again doesn't mean that I agree that it should have started in the first place (I don't). As a soldier, what i agree with is supporting, defending, and upholding the Constitution of the United States. When my Commander-in-Chief orders me to do something, it becomes my moral and civic duty to carry it out unless it directly contradicts that Constitution. That is why I fought and will do it again. The merits of the war itself are beside the point.

Go take your foot out of your mouth, and if you're man enough, apologize for putting words in mine.

I dont see anywhere where someone questioned the merits of the American Solider (or solders of other countries that supported our pointless war for that matter) He said the war was pointless and you even said it yourself so why bring all this up...

I also do think it is fair game to bring up what previous administrations have done with money. When George Bush entered office there was a surplus, when he left, well, we know the story. Part of this next administrations job, is to clean up for what the previous administration did. Definitely not reason to condone wasteful spending, but not everyone believes this program is wasteful spending.

 

[57fairlane]

reading material . . . I love it.

It is costing money but I think the benefits out way that.

I haven't the slightest clue what you look like, how old you are etc. but you sound like a 15 year old with very little understanding of how the world works. You see what Obama does and do not understand how it is being paid for, what the long-term ramifications are, what use is it really?

The Cash for clunkers program is a government subsidy plain and simple. It is using the "general fund" from everyone and handing out money to those that did not earn it.

Any type of price control (it doesn't matter if its 1900s leninist soviet union or Chavez's venezuela, or here today) produces a short term growth. This is basic keynesian economics: lowering the price and keeping supply the same automatically means demand increases. Think of an x/y graph if you haven't taken basic economics in school.

So in the short term, we have supply being bought and everything is great.
And this is the foundation of keynes' theory that in tough economic times that you use G (or government) to provide the increase in demand that otherwise is provided by C (consumption or the private sector).

But what happens when cash for clunkers runs out?
Price point (point at which demand curve and supply curve cross paths) will increase, demand will decrease and supply will lag behind to achieve the equilibrium the price was at before cash for clunkers.

Hopefully the auto manufactures aren't dumb enough to produce more cars than they were selling before CFC based on the inflated numbers with the program or they will be stuck with a lot of inventory meaning supply will still be high on the graph and price will have to drop to meet the demand or deal with the very low demand numbers.

So in otherwords, Government interference in any free market situation is bad 99.9% of the time. Its why Adam Smith labelled it the "invisible hand" because the free market doesn't need price controls or any other involvement to work as it should.

if you haven't figured it out already, all of Obama's plans that I have seen do nothing to increase "C" in the long-term, either through lower taxes (and what the hell ever happened to lowering taxes for 95% of americans?!?) or allowing the private sector to grow. In my opinion his programs are for growing the Government portion of our GDP and moving us toward a demand market or socialistic in nature.

you would be much served by reading:
Price Controls: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

 

[S&B]

Back to the topic, you know there is a fight club were you Americans can go fight about obamas and his huge stimuals package


Right now GTO is trading in his fox for a new car so yes Fox's are being traded, probably more than you know.

its good, more interior parts on the market, and less foxes 100 more years of this program and our foxes might be worth something

 

[LaserSVT]

Back to the topic, you know there is a fight club were you Americans can go fight about obamas and his huge stimuals package


Right now GTO is trading in his fox for a new car so yes Fox's are being traded, probably more than you know.

its good, more interior parts on the market, and less foxes 100 more years of this program and our foxes might be worth something

Damn youz!!! I was just gonna post teh exact same thing. Get outs me head!!!

 

[90lxcoupe]

I also do think it is fair game to bring up what previous administrations have done with money. When George Bush entered office there was a surplus, when he left, well, we know the story. Part of this next administrations job, is to clean up for what the previous administration did. Definitely not reason to condone wasteful spending, but not everyone believes this program is wasteful spending.

When i read your posts my brain hurts... im not anti-obama, but the thing that pisses me off about Obama supporters is that when someone says something about what OBAMA is doing, they just retort with a comment about how much Bush ****ed up... and not how obama is dropping the ball. but i guess you cant see when your up to your neck in the presidents arse...
there were issues before Bush if you guys wanna bring it there, the whole situation we are in with the national debt has been a long time coming. And besides, whats 694 billion when we are 11 trillion in debt?


FastDriver thank you for your service

 

[1991notchbackLX]

Wow. All the more reason to ban RedFoxGT. Please see my comments in Ryan's thread about his new hatch.

For the record, the Clinton administration had a surplus because Bill Clinton inherited the "dot com" craze, a time of unprecedented prosperity in the history of the American economic system. I won't even comment on some of the other statements made in this thread by stuck up L.A. trash and 13 year olds.

FastDriver, thank you for helping protect us from tyranny stateside and abroad. To dissent is patriotic, but ignorance is bliss to these morons.