front steering for 67

pazur · Jul 10, 2007

Is there any trick to convert 67 spidles for front steering? Would placing stock left spindle to the right side mechanically work? Just wondering if someone has ever tried it. Not whole stock steering system, just spindles.

I think I found a junkyard r&p swap that have spindles of about same length as classic mustangs (i.e. 6", rest incl rear steered has less than 4"), which will improve steering radius (well r&p kits almost double the radius, as I learned from this web site). But these r&p work only for front steering. Could not find single rear-steered r&p which would have tie rod arm over 6" in length!

CanyonCarver515 · Jul 10, 2007

Mm, it's not looking good in my opinion. You might have interference with many more things in the front than in the rear. Not to mention caster issue once you invert the spindles.

96 DOHC Cobra · Jul 10, 2007

I'm curious about this, too, and would like to see a solution found. I remember the early Camaro disc spindles used a bolt-on steering arm that could be switched from front to back depending on the application. Couldn't something similar be made up fro use on a Classic Mustang?

pazur · Jul 11, 2007

CanyonCarver515 said:
Mm, it's not looking good in my opinion. You might have interference with many more things in the front than in the rear. Not to mention caster issue once you invert the spindles.

caster and camber angles should be exactly the same when you rotate the spindles by 180 degrees once the planes of ball joint holes are parallel on the spindle. The clearance should not be a problem - I think this site shows one stang with steering rack on front (yet fully custom suspension).

Just wondering if this switch can mechanically work. Anyone who had done it before?

Rusty67 · Jul 11, 2007

I sounds odd... I don't think it would change the geometry just siting in here thinking about it, but it might. If I was looking at it I might have a different opinion. What car has the rack that you are talking about ?

brianj5600 · Jul 11, 2007

Also consider that it might be designed to take more stress in one direction. The forces on the spindle and brake points would be in opposite direction of the intended force. Remember you might betting your life on it.

pazur · Jul 12, 2007

Rusty67 said:
I sounds odd... I don't think it would change the geometry just siting in here thinking about it, but it might. If I was looking at it I might have a different opinion. What car has the rack that you are talking about ?

It will only shift the steering arm by maybe 2-3" up. Anyway it seems I will have to sometimes creep under my rusty pony and figure out everything by myself. I've seen the rack in some full-size buick (or dodge?) definitely american 90s, but don't know the type as storm started and had to run. The guy wanted 125 for the rack with pump cut, I made a deal for $50 later. About 5" wider than needed; however it moves in the center pushing two rods, which can be shortened. if I get lucky maybe will hook it somehow to the stock steering shaft. Saw also taurus rp (many say they use this in early mustangs) but I can see no differences of this compared to any others and no wonder that it worsens turning radius a lot. And the other guy (Brian?) you amused me, just wondering what's your profession

brianj5600 · Jul 12, 2007

I am not an engineer and I am guessing you are not either. Do some research on bump steer. If you shorten the tie rod too much, you might cause excessive bump steer no matter where the rack is mounted.

Rusty67 · Jul 12, 2007

I havn't heard of anyone using the taurus rack with great results. Some people have done it but they don't get better radius or performance then anyone else out of them. I would personally take the stock steering over any R&P conversion I've seen so far. Maybe you will find one that actually works well.

brianj5600 · Jul 12, 2007

J-car type racks allow full length tie rods, which helps the toe curve. I am not sure of any front steer versions though.

reenmachine · Jul 12, 2007

Rusty67 said:
I would personally take the stock steering over any R&P conversion I've seen so far. Maybe you will find one that actually works well.

Really? I've done a number of Randall's Racks and love them. They fit great, work great, give plenty of header clearance, and have no bumpsteer issues in my opinion (center take-off).

Rusty67 · Jul 12, 2007

I'm running manual steering and I have yet to experience bump steer issues, but I bought the baer tracker kit just in case since I'm going to be lowering the car when Degins gets his drop spindles into production.

If you read this Degins, I'm still waiting for those !

pazur · Jul 12, 2007

brianj5600 said:
J-car type racks allow full length tie rods, which helps the toe curve. I am not sure of any front steer versions though.

Do you mean any specific j-car model and tie rod length? I just know of 90s cavalier that has just too short tie rod arms - not more than 4", and at least 6" are needed to have closely stock turning radius. And steering radius is my only limitation. Bumpsteer, as you said in previous post, are usually addressed in offroad vehicles when lifted 5"+ which makes angle between steering rods increase over 25 degrees from 0 degrees. At least I drive CJ with high articulation springs, 35" tireswith approx 25 deg. angle, no sway bar. When reading forums, I learn that I should have a serious bumpsteer issue, but I really don't notice any serious problems, althought notice it a little. Can drive this truck with three fingers. Offroad. Doubt that mustangs can have any bumpsteer problem simply resulting from replaced steering mechanism, while keeping original suspension (yet not happily designed).
The front steering I asked about may work, I had a look at it today; there is enough clearance and flipping the spindles will slightly get the tie rods holes closer to the chassis (+2"), which will reduce the steering rods angle, when rp is fixed to chassis or some custom-made subframe. The rp could be placed between engine and radiator where there is plenty of space. When finishing this I will provide details; sometimes next year.

rbohm · Jul 12, 2007

you cannot just swap spindles from side to side to go from a rear steer car to a front steer car, or vice versa. first you run into oil pan clearance problems, and second you run into suspension geometry problems. and not just bump steer either, you will have ackerman problems as well.

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