FTI cam idle problems

[YEAHLOH95]

Shaun I've never seen this to be a permanent fix. The EEC ALWAYS trys to get back to the factory idle of 650rpms. Adjusting the throttle screw is only a temp fix, the idle is set via the EEC and nothing else and it will do everything it can to get back to that rpm.

paul thats all i did to my car til i took it to kauffmans i turned up the idle screw to get rid of the surging idle so it did help my car out it idles around 900 to a 1000rpm my cam is 114 centerline so it should have not been too bad of an idle but it still sounds rough when it's cold!

 

[red94fiveo]

Update

OK, I went home today and messed around with the car a little bit. I think I found a couple possible sources of a vacuum leak. The Orange tube on the tree that used to be hooked up to the smog was not hooked up to anything, so I plugged that. And a vacuum line from my intake to what I think the wiring diagram called the 'solenoid purge canister' had a big gash in it. Unfornately when I was trying to remove the vacuum line from the canister, the plastic fitting on the end of the canister was really brittle and it broke off, so I just plugged the end of the canister and the end of the vacuum line. The car still won't idle, I looked at my cam card and the LSA is 112.

Also, It sounds like a freakin grand national car or something, it seriously sounds like I am running with no mufflers or something, WAY louder than it was before. Any ideas about this? I will be ordering the FP gauge from steeda on monday, and I suppose I will go buy a new purge canister from ford. I couldn't drive the car to see if the power was any better today, b/c it is pouring outside. Thanks again for all the responses guys, I'm getting a little frustrated, but I'm going to stick with this one.

 

[Rootus]

112* definitely is narrow enough to cause some idle issues. Mine won't come even close to idling properly (my LSA is even narrower, 110*) without the TwEECer. It takes a pretty substantial vacuum leak to make it idle badly.

As for sound -- definitely expect it to be a bit louder, that's normal -- but not "no muffler" loud.

I'm betting you'd really benefit from a chip or tuner.

Dave

 

[red94fiveo]

112* definitely is narrow enough to cause some idle issues. Mine won't come even close to idling properly (my LSA is even narrower, 110*) without the TwEECer. It takes a pretty substantial vacuum leak to make it idle badly.

As for sound -- definitely expect it to be a bit louder, that's normal -- but not "no muffler" loud.

I'm betting you'd really benefit from a chip or tuner.

Dave

Dave, thanks for the advice. At this point I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that I need either a chip or a tweecer, I'm just trying to scrape together the money. What are some good palces to get chips from, at this point I would be OK with just doing that.

As for the vacuum leak I was wondering about that more with the loss in power than the idle, I don't think the vacuum leak would effect the idle, either. Did you drive your car at all before getter the twEECer? What did it drive like?

Anybody else got any ideas about the sound? I can understand it being louder, but at this point is sounds like it did when I drove it around the block with no mufflers a while back!

 

[final5-0]

OK, I went home today and messed around with the car a little bit. I think I found a couple possible sources of a vacuum leak. The Orange tube on the tree that used to be hooked up to the smog was not hooked up to anything, so I plugged that. And a vacuum line from my intake to what I think the wiring diagram called the 'solenoid purge canister' had a big gash in it. Unfornately when I was trying to remove the vacuum line from the canister, the plastic fitting on the end of the canister was really brittle and it broke off, so I just plugged the end of the canister and the end of the vacuum line. The car still won't idle, I looked at my cam card and the LSA is 112.

Also, It sounds like a freakin grand national car or something, it seriously sounds like I am running with no mufflers or something, WAY louder than it was before. Any ideas about this? I will be ordering the FP gauge from steeda on monday, and I suppose I will go buy a new purge canister from ford. I couldn't drive the car to see if the power was any better today, b/c it is pouring outside. Thanks again for all the responses guys, I'm getting a little frustrated, but I'm going to stick with this one.

Glad your making progress

I thought you had one or more vacuum leaks

As for your car making more noise, its making more HP now and that is to be expected.

I would get all those hoses back to their correct locations as opposed to plugging them.

After the vacuum lines are fixed your idle should begin to stabilize.

When you have found the best settings for the throttle stop screw & the tb isc bypass screw, I would disco the battery for about 20 mins which will allow the pcm to learn how to idle with your new settings.

When you get your Tweecer you can put the settings back to stock and tune with it.

Let us know how things are going!

Later
Grady

 

[Rootus]

What are some good palces to get chips from, at this point I would be OK with just doing that.

Check locally, there's gotta be a shop that burns chips. You could probably get away with a mail order chip on a N/A combo, but I don't know enough to make recommendations.

You *might* also be able to get by with swapping your EEC for a Cobra one, if you can find one cheaply. I can't guarantee it will solve your idle issue, but the Cobra EEC is much more friendly to cams, and not as aggressive as the GT calibration (you won't get optimum power, but you might get better driveability). The Cobra calibration is the basis for my current TwEECer tune, for exactly this reason.

As for the vacuum leak I was wondering about that more with the loss in power than the idle,

I'd be surprised if you saw much (if any) effect on power just because of a vacuum leak, especially a small one.

I don't think the vacuum leak would effect the idle, either. Did you drive your car at all before getter the twEECer? What did it drive like?

I bought and installed the TwEECer before doing my mods, so I didn't have a chance to drive it without. But I did try starting it with the TwEECer turned off. It wouldn't even come close to idling, it hunted between 300 and 2000 RPM a few times and then died every time. The GT EEC is not at all tolerant of aggressive cams.

Dave

 

[95snoozer]

check for an intake gasket leak.

I blew a hole in my upper plennum gasket somehow, and it was totally stock and idled liek a 108 lsa

 

[red94fiveo]

It gets wierder......

Ok, this just got a little more wierd! I just verifyed the timing and drove the car for the first time. The timing was at 18*, so I set it back to 13*. Oh, and I adjusted the idle screw on my TB, and now the car will idle pretty well, it doesn't die!

Anyway, I took the car out and at about 1/8 throttle it feels normal. Pressing the gas down anymore than that and the car just does nothing! I could pass it 10 times over in my Acura! I'm thinking that maybe its fuel related. I'm not even going to try to solve the problem until I get my FP gauge. Does this sounds fuel realated or do I really need a tune or both?

 

[Rootus]

Does nothing? Stutters, dies, ?

'nother idea -- double check that all your plugs are firing correctly. Hard to believe, perhaps, but just having one plug notfiring can really make a 5.0 run like crap.

 

[final5-0]

Mark

It has got to be something simple that you have overlooked, like Dave said, plugwires or crimped fuel hose or the like.

Check all of your electrical connections.

As for fuel pressure. I think the pump shutoff will activate if you try to check for fuel supply by opening up the line somewhere. There ought to be a way you can check for fuel without having to buy a pressure gauge.

Someone chime in here with an idea as I'm drawing a blank on this one at this time.

Later
Grady

 

[Highbredcloud]

Ok, this just got a little more wierd! I just verifyed the timing and drove the car for the first time. The timing was at 18*, so I set it back to 13*. Oh, and I adjusted the idle screw on my TB, and now the car will idle pretty well, it doesn't die!

Anyway, I took the car out and at about 1/8 throttle it feels normal. Pressing the gas down anymore than that and the car just does nothing! I could pass it 10 times over in my Acura! I'm thinking that maybe its fuel related. I'm not even going to try to solve the problem until I get my FP gauge. Does this sounds fuel realated or do I really need a tune or both?

It could be your roller rockers...did you check your rocker arm geometry? did you adjust them properly? Did you the the lifter pre-load correctly? It seems as though the valves are not opening all the way...I had a similar porblem on my car when I put the rocker on the wrong side of the pedistal and it cracked therefore the valve was not opening...each time I'd floor it the car would not go anywhere...except my fan would go nuts...too bad you don't have a regular fan...that would be a good indicator as far as the engine truning and the valves not opening all the way...BTW: do you have the stud mount rockers or pedistal? I think stud mount are required for AFR's but am not sure...

 

[Killercanary]

Well, I'm sticking by my guns in that you can not permanently set the idle without doing via the EEC. Like I said, you can adjust the screw and this help for a little while, but the idle problems will come back. If they don't after you drive it a while, please inform me. This topic has come up like a hundred times, and I can't think of anyone that fixed it with just turning the idle screw.

Green- I know of guys that have used the idle plate with success, and others that had it not work at all. I'm not sure about the A9l, maybe you can adjust the idle permanently without doing it in the EEC.


Troy- do you remember Tom (red fobra) doing this to his car down at the wal-mart show. It fixed it that day, but by the next week it was back to its old self... surging and dying. How long did you drive your car with the idle adjusted with the screw before getting it tuned? You never called me back after your cable guy left...

 

[Grn92LX]

Nah, can't check FP w/o a gauge. Could be since you have an adj regulator it needs to be lowered. Wont know till u get a gauge.

killercanary, you can set idle higher w/o tuning the eec. Like I said, my car has idled around 900 for about the past 3 years. That ford idle plate helped me a lot, definatly worth the $10 (used) i paid!
Mike

 

[tmoss]

Did you guys degree in the cam? If it is retarded it could cause a loss of power in the normal driving range. Have you talked to EDC yet?

 

[red94fiveo]

Does nothing? Stutters, dies, ?

'nother idea -- double check that all your plugs are firing correctly. Hard to believe, perhaps, but just having one plug notfiring can really make a 5.0 run like crap.

When I say it does nothing, I mean that it just does not accelerate to the point. I sounds OK, but I'm just not going any faster. The rate is accelerates at with the throttle 1/16 of the way down is the same as the rate it accelerates at with the throttle all the way down.

My dad says it feels like we took $3500 out of the car, not put $3500 in!

I'm not going to mess with it anymore until I get that FP gauge later this week.

 

[Rootus]

I'm not going to mess with it anymore until I get that FP gauge later this week.

That's probably a good idea -- if I'm reading other posts correctly, you installed an adjustable regulator without a gauge? No way to tell, it might be way off. I can't remember how much mine needed adjustment, but it definitely wasn't exact. You want 39 psi.

Dave

 

[94DreamGT]

Man Mark...you are not doing much for my confidence in getting my car running. I am installing heads/cam this weekend and was planning on driving it the next couple of weekends...I'm hoping mine doesn't experience the problems you are having.

BTW...I have a TwEECer on my "to get" list, but not until the end of the year. My FTI cam has a 111 LSA, so it might be an adventure, but as long as I can get it from point A to B without dying every second, I'll be ok.

 

[mytight95]

if your cam is going to have 111 lsa then you are going to need that tweecer


jason

 

[red94fiveo]

Man Mark...you are not doing much for my confidence in getting my car running. I am installing heads/cam this weekend and was planning on driving it the next couple of weekends...I'm hoping mine doesn't experience the problems you are having.

BTW...I have a TwEECer on my "to get" list, but not until the end of the year. My FTI cam has a 111 LSA, so it might be an adventure, but as long as I can get it from point A to B without dying every second, I'll be ok.

I wouldn't worry too much, I always seem to have more snags than most people when doing stuff as its my first time around on everything I do. I will say that with a 111 LSA you are probably going to need that tweecer....

 

[RIO5.0]

Throw the stock FPR back on it???? Got nothing to lose...that will atleast give you an idea. will take all of 5 minutes....