Gains from C&L Plenum and 70mm TB

DiabloRojoStang · Jul 3, 2004

What gains can be expected from a C&L plenum and a 70mm TB? And also a SCT dyno tune.

twogts4us · Jul 3, 2004

Checkout the shootout done over at modular depot. It was done with an 03 GT with full exhaust and pulleys.
Part 1 (70mm TB) - http://www.modulardepot.com/?show=articlesdet&aid=30
Part 2 (75mm TB) - http://www.modulardepot.com/?show=articlesdet&aid=38

BAFMustangGT · Jul 3, 2004

First of all, get rid of your CAI. They net you no measurable power gains. The invariably involve isolating the air filter area from the hot engine bay. A good start would be plugging all the coolant passages that heat the throttle as well as the intake manifolds. The heated manifolds(like every other car out there) is why cold air intakes don't make diddly for difference - because the intake manifolds are heated! This is also why you can feel the difference when your engine is cold - because the intake manifolds are still cold also!
Conclusion: Don't bother with cold air intakes until you manage to block/bypass the intake manifold heating.

For the T/B, a T/B alone cannot gain more than 1-2 rwhp unless you have forced induction. The intake simply cannot make use of the extra size. The aftermarket GT intakes are allowing for bigger throttle bodies to be used today though. THus...the T/B and Plenum will do very little at all and not worth it for you.

Im telling you rigth now, if you dont have em (which according to yoru sig you dont), get 4.10 gears. You will be thanking me later. 4.10s minimum on a daily driven 4.6L N/A mustang.

twogts4us · Jul 3, 2004

BAFMustangGT said:
First of all, get rid of your CAI. They net you no measurable power gains. The invariably involve isolating the air filter area from the hot engine bay. A good start would be plugging all the coolant passages that heat the throttle as well as the intake manifolds. The heated manifolds(like every other car out there) is why cold air intakes don't make diddly for difference - because the intake manifolds are heated! This is also why you can feel the difference when your engine is cold - because the intake manifolds are still cold also!
Conclusion: Don't bother with cold air intakes until you manage to block/bypass the intake manifold heating.

For the T/B, a T/B alone cannot gain more than 1-2 rwhp unless you have forced induction. The intake simply cannot make use of the extra size. The aftermarket GT intakes are allowing for bigger throttle bodies to be used today though. THus...the T/B and Plenum will do very little at all and not worth it for you.

Im telling you rigth now, if you dont have em (which according to yoru sig you dont), get 4.10 gears. You will be thanking me later. 4.10s minimum on a daily driven 4.6L N/A mustang.

First off, the writer didn't ask about CAI, but since you offered your opinion, here are some facts: The K&N FIPK Gen 2 has been shown, here on StangNet, to make dyno measurable power gains, around 6-8 RWHP. Almost any kind of intake tube/pipe is better than the OEM one. The accordian design is just not conducive to good air flow, plus I'm sure you noticed the large dent on the bottom of the OEM hose near the TB - that can't be good.
True, a TB alone will not net much. But the plenum and TB combos have shown dyno measurable gains in the 6-8 RWHP range.
True, gears are probably the best SOTP performance mod.
And if you really want to talk about BS mods, the C&L MAF only makes power by leaning the A/F ratio. I removed my 85mm C&L MAF because my A/F ratio was pretty much tweaked out with the SCT tune I've got (lesson learned!). Going back to the OEM MAF didn't hurt the performance one bit. Still, my wife's 01 has the C&L 80mm MAF on hers since her Diablo is a pretty mild tune and it can take the additional leaning caused by the C&L. But this is all the C&L MAF does, nothing more. Not that there is anything wrong with this, but it is very misleading.

3.8L_of_Pain · Jul 4, 2004

DiabloRojoStang said:
What gains can be expected from a C&L plenum and a 70mm TB? And also a SCT dyno tune.

Yeah, read the reports on modular depot linked by twogts4us; they are very informative.

I just installed the Accufab 70mm TB/plenum and the torque gains are very good over entire rpm range. However, be prepared for some high pitched TB whistle at WOT near redline.

01GT eibach · Jul 4, 2004

With the 70 mm TB and new upper intake combo, is it true there are no gains less than 3000 rpms with the peak gain showing up around 5500 rpm?

twogts4us · Jul 4, 2004

01GT eibach said:
With the 70 mm TB and new upper intake combo, is it true there are no gains less than 3000 rpms with the peak gain showing up around 5500 rpm?

I'd believe it. Really what it shows is that this is where the OEM design began to fail (or be limited by its design). As I reported just after this upgrade, it is REALLY noticable at 3K. But AT 3K, you know something has changed - it just pulls and pulls like it never did before. Don't put it all on the peaks...
Also note that Accufab also just came out with a revised 75mm design plenum to take advantage of a 75mm TB. If I were doing it again today, this is what I'd get.

DiabloRojoStang · Jul 19, 2004

BAFMustangGT said:
First of all, get rid of your CAI. They net you no measurable power gains. The invariably involve isolating the air filter area from the hot engine bay. A good start would be plugging all the coolant passages that heat the throttle as well as the intake manifolds. The heated manifolds(like every other car out there) is why cold air intakes don't make diddly for difference - because the intake manifolds are heated! This is also why you can feel the difference when your engine is cold - because the intake manifolds are still cold also!
Conclusion: Don't bother with cold air intakes until you manage to block/bypass the intake manifold heating.

For the T/B, a T/B alone cannot gain more than 1-2 rwhp unless you have forced induction. The intake simply cannot make use of the extra size. The aftermarket GT intakes are allowing for bigger throttle bodies to be used today though. THus...the T/B and Plenum will do very little at all and not worth it for you.

Im telling you rigth now, if you dont have em (which according to yoru sig you dont), get 4.10 gears. You will be thanking me later. 4.10s minimum on a daily driven 4.6L N/A mustang.

Hmmmmm. I'm thinkin you don't know your A$$ from a hot rock. Got the C&L plenum and got 6hp to the rear wheels. As for your comments about the CAI, see above statement.

ADRENLN · Jul 19, 2004

yea i just installed the accufab 70mm tb and plenum. 3000 rpm and up this thing really kicks in, i love it. i was unaware of accufab making a revised plenum for the 75 mm tb? damn i just got mine, oh well.

Go HoTO! · Jul 20, 2004

I removed my C&L MAF Kit...it leaned me way out. This is a BAD mod unless you have your car dyno tuned. This mod should come with a warning from C&L:

"Do not use UNLESS you dyno tune...otherwise you are playing Russian Roulet"

I agree, though, 4.10's are the best mod I have! It would be my first thing to do on a new Mustang.

CAI: They work, not great, but they work. There are some drawbacks, but there are benefits. In the end, I believe they produce more hp.

When I look at dynos from guys like me with "near stock" mustangs or "lightly modded" or whatever you want to call "us". the ones with the best hp (260 ish) always have pullies and an X-Pipe. I believe these are the best hp gain bang for the buck mods.

The plenum and TB combo is proven to get you 10 hp or so. Is it worth it? Boy, UDP's are a lot cheaper for the same gain, but I got to tell you, my car pulls like a freight train at high rpms with them.

The thread starter asked about an SCT tune. Any tuner should be able to tune a near stock mustang, though, I have read many posts from guys getting only 5 or 6 hp after dropping big bucks on a tune. Advancing your timing with a chip or programmer should net you 5 - 15 hp. I know that is a big range, but depends on other mods.

turboscrew · Jul 20, 2004

I removed my C&L MAF Kit...it leaned me way out. This is a BAD mod unless you have your car dyno tuned. This mod should come with a warning from C&L:

Turn your mass air sensor towards the engine to the 3 o'clock position to make the car run richer. Turning it towards the fenderwell leans the car out.

chimchim · Jul 20, 2004

C&L Plenum with stock TB???

Anyone have this setup? I have a chance to get a brand new C&L Plenum for cheap from a buddy of mine and I will install with stock TB. Anybody know the HP difference between stock and/or 70 and 75MM? Also, I saw this on Horsepower TV a while ago, Can you take a dremel or dremel type tool and smooth out the very edge of the TB so that it lines up with the opening to the plenum??? Or is this even worth the waste of time and chance of screwing it up? Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

twogts4us · Jul 20, 2004

Go HoTO! said:
I have read many posts from guys getting only 5 or 6 hp after dropping big bucks on a tune.

You must be talking about me...!

Yeah, well that's really to be expected on a stock or near-stock GT. There are gains to be had with a TA and UDP or a tune, but they all add up to about the same. My 02 was dyno'd at 233 RWHP before the Accufab plenum and TB & C&L Trueflow Tube. Take out about 8 HP or so for the catback, and I probably gained about 5 HP with the SCT chip over a base guesstimate of 220. But smiling now with probably 240 at the wheels. SCT is great stuff, and their Racers Package Software is awesome (wish I had it). I'm just not really taking advantage of the possible gains, but my tuner wants another $375 for dyno time, reburn, etc. (Yikes! - no thanks, If I have to spend that, I'll get the software and a data logger)
If I had it to do over again, I probably would have just got a speed-cal for now, til I had enough mods to really take advantage of a good tune. Honestly, I think my tuner just wanted to install a chip and play on a dyno rather than monkey around with a speed-cal. Plus there was more money to take from me.
Just like the C&L MAF, you live and you learn...
That's why guys like Go HoTO and I are out here - to share our successes and failures. Then when we have a couple bucks, turn to everyone else in hopes of getting some equally good advice.

super302 · Jul 20, 2004

You might gain about 10 hp overall...from what i've heard

DiabloRojoStang · Jul 21, 2004

chimchim said:
Anyone have this setup? I have a chance to get a brand new C&L Plenum for cheap from a buddy of mine and I will install with stock TB. Anybody know the HP difference between stock and/or 70 and 75MM? Also, I saw this on Horsepower TV a while ago, Can you take a dremel or dremel type tool and smooth out the very edge of the TB so that it lines up with the opening to the plenum??? Or is this even worth the waste of time and chance of screwing it up? Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

I have the stock TB with the C&L plenum(70mm is on it's way). Very noticeable gain from just the C&L. Could chirp second before. Now, I can really grab second gear and the power continues through the band when it used to drop off.

281Ponies · Jul 21, 2004

Hmm, noticed a new in the box C&L Plenum over in the classified section for a fair price.

Shameless Plug

chimchim · Jul 21, 2004

Thanks for the input, guys. The C&L that my buddy has is for an 02 and I have a 97. Any ideas on how to attach my smaller pcv hose to the larger fitting with no LEAKS? Any help would be appreciated.

chimchim · Jul 21, 2004

New C&L Plenum Question.

chimchim said:
Thanks for the input, guys. The C&L that my buddy has is for an 02 and I have a 97. Any ideas on how to attach my smaller pcv hose to the larger fitting with no LEAKS? Any help would be appreciated.

Forgive me. I'm impatient. Thanks, in advance, for your help.

xxbpoutlaw4xx · Jul 23, 2004

You need to get an adapter to conect the two hoses. You can get one at ne auto parts store.

Gains from C&L Plenum and 70mm TB

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