Gauging interest in a turbo kit

Glad to hear your intent! Need the a/c though, that's for sure...

With a log-style manifold, I will be curious to see what kind of HP is possible. As for intercooling, the 'ebay intercoolers' are reasonably priced, if we can find one that would work, and make the plumbing a go.

A 351W w/ forged bottom end ought to be a plenty strong before the block breaks!

10sec, I definately think you're starting off in the right direction. A simple kit designed to fit the typical engines in the typical cars. Most of the people that buy this stuff will be drag racers or weekend warriors with stripped down smallblocks and stock-ish front ends. Don't let the requests for "p/s, a/c equipped DOHC 4.6's with stock shock towers and TCP power rack stuffed into a 65 shell" get you stressed out about an over-complicated kit that accomodates everybody. Stick to the basics and keep the price low, they will sell themselves. Personally, I only see the need for 2 kits. and the only difference b/w them would be minor stuff on the hot side piping to allow 289/302 or 351. The same logs could be used, and the same cold side could be used. I think its given that a thru-fender air filter be used. Whether ds or ps is likely of no consequence to most serious buyers. IC not needed and only adds cost amd complexity.

again, the people who will be buying this kit (not just offering lip service) probably won't have an issue with cutting a hole for the filter. Most probably already have the battery in the trunk too.

302 coupe said:

Most probably already have the battery in the trunk too.

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even if they don't, most people realize that you may need to move some things to make room. a ton of kits (turbo AND supercharger) require you to trim or relocate things. that's just the price you pay to play the game.
no a/c, no power steering, move the battery. i doubt a turbo kit it going on a shelby or concours car.

agreed.

paul302 said:

even if they don't, most people realize that you may need to move some things to make room. a ton of kits (turbo AND supercharger) require you to trim or relocate things. that's just the price you pay to play the game.
no a/c, no power steering, move the battery. i doubt a turbo kit it going on a shelby or concours car.

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good luck man... after talking to my buddy (he builds turbo kits and is a professional welder) it wasnt worth it for me and him to try. There are too many options to consider. You need to take into effect a few things:

What pulley setup are they using? Vbelt? Serpentine? March?
What motor?
Aftermarket or stock brackets?
A/C or no A/C?
Power steering or no powersteering?
carb or EFI?
export brace or monte carlo brace?

I know if its anything like my old 69 used to be, I had some custom brackets holding on my accessories. Its gonna be hard to mock up a system for a guy wiht a high mounted or low mounted alternator thats running a March serpentine setup wiht powersteering and a/c on a 351w in a 67-68. If you could build a kit that sorta goes around EVERYTHING i think you would have a better chance of starting the market. I really think that is the reason no one has tried the classic market yet, everyones car is REALLY different from each other.

Im really not trying to discourage but if you need to relocate stuff, I would suggest adding it into the kit and charging more. If you need to move the alternator around, a relocating bracket would be great in the kit. Just keep in mind all the options that these different year cars have and try to build a universal type kit.

I wish you the best of luck...im gonna be building my own setup on the 68fastback we have.

xoxbxfx said:

There are too many options to consider.

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i think you're over complicating things. the kit should dictate what the options are. eg- no a/c, no ps, no monte carlo bar, single groove pulley, low mount alt. if you can't deal with the conditions, then don't buy it.
the kit shouldn't include the pulley, because it's not uncommon for people to run one. and it needlessly drives up the cost of the kit.
the only way you're going to make a profit is to limit the options and make as few variations as possible.

paul302 said:

i think you're over complicating things. the kit should dictate what the options are. eg- no a/c, no ps, no monte carlo bar, single groove pulley, low mount alt. if you can't deal with the conditions, then don't buy it.
the kit shouldn't include the pulley, because it's not uncommon for people to run one. and it needlessly drives up the cost of the kit.
the only way you're going to make a profit is to limit the options and make as few variations as possible.

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and thats exactly my point. A limited kit makes for limited market. The turbo classics market is very slim but very slowly growing. Just a year or two ago, there was no one on this board that I knew of with a turbo classic. RT100T (something like that) started a kit but took forever to finish it.... What im trying to say is, the market is going to be very hard to get into because you have to market a universal kit that appeals to many, or try and get the few that meet your requirements.

Though it may not reflect it here, many of the classic stangers are people in their later adulthood who do not know much about turbos. To appeal to an older minded audience, you have to show power, reliability, and you have to meet their requirements. To run a successful business you must cater to the consumer when offering a product that is not necessary. A luxury item that people with money are willing to get IF it can go into their car without a ton of modifications. Do they have to ahve it?? no, but it would be nice. You cannot offer something very limited and expect people to convert their ways to conform to your product. Take example a Ford F250. There are TONS of options from manual windows to saddle leather interiors. If they did not make the options stripper version, do you think that business people would buy them? Or vise-versa... People want luxury trucks, if ford didnt offer fx4's or king ranch editions, do you think people that want a luxury truck would buy it?? You have to cater to the consumer...the reason there is so much success with newer stangs and why there are kits out there is because they are more standard (being more engine space in some, standard pulley setups, standard brackets, the engine bays were the same from 79-93 and from 94-04) and it takes a ton of the guess out of the situation and also allows for a single kit to fit many options.

xoxbxfx said:

and thats exactly my point. A limited kit makes for limited market. The turbo classics market is very slim but very slowly growing. Just a year or two ago, there was no one on this board that I knew of with a turbo classic. RT100T (something like that) started a kit but took forever to finish it.... What im trying to say is, the market is going to be very hard to get into because you have to market a universal kit that appeals to many, or try and get the few that meet your requirements.

Though it may not reflect it here, many of the classic stangers are people in their later adulthood who do not know much about turbos. To appeal to an older minded audience, you have to show power, reliability, and you have to meet their requirements. To run a successful business you must cater to the consumer when offering a product that is not necessary. A luxury item that people with money are willing to get IF it can go into their car without a ton of modifications. Do they have to ahve it?? no, but it would be nice. You cannot offer something very limited and expect people to convert their ways to conform to your product. Take example a Ford F250. There are TONS of options from manual windows to saddle leather interiors. If they did not make the options stripper version, do you think that business people would buy them? Or vise-versa... People want luxury trucks, if ford didnt offer fx4's or king ranch editions, do you think people that want a luxury truck would buy it?? You have to cater to the consumer...the reason there is so much success with newer stangs and why there are kits out there is because they are more standard (being more engine space in some, standard pulley setups, standard brackets, the engine bays were the same from 79-93 and from 94-04) and it takes a ton of the guess out of the situation and also allows for a single kit to fit many options.

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i disagree

IMO the only reason there are so few turbo's around is because of the lack of options availible for our cars. Fabricating a turbo system is something very few can do. If there is a possibility to install a kit that will bolton, I believe we will be seeing a lot more classic stangs on turbo boost.

DarkoStoj said:

i disagree

IMO the only reason there are so few turbo's around is because of the lack of options availible for our cars. Fabricating a turbo system is something very few can do. If there is a possibility to install a kit that will bolton, I believe we will be seeing a lot more classic stangs on turbo boost.

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then why dont you see many supercharged classics?? I see a roots every now and then but centrifugal is still rare. There are a few but not many.

xoxbxfx said:

then why dont you see many supercharged classics?? I see a roots every now and then but centrifugal is still rare. There are a few but not many.

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lack of knowledge and advertising. I personally didn't know there were specific kits for classic mustangs until a couple weeks ago.

I don't think that blowers are all that rare. You just don't hear about them as often because there are a lot fewer classic mustangs around....compared to say 87-93 foxbodies.

DarkoStoj said:

lack of knowledge and advertising. I personally didn't know there were specific kits for classic mustangs until a couple weeks ago.

I don't think that blowers are all that rare. You just don't hear about them as often because there are a lot fewer classic mustangs around....compared to say 87-93 foxbodies.

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like I said man...its not impossible but it will definately be a hard market to get into. I really really looked into it considering my buddy is a turbokit fabricator and can tig like no one elses business. I already have a 65-66. 67-68, and a 69-70 stang around for mockups (all with 302's) and a a 69 with a 351w as well.. I got the cars and time, hes got the skills to do all the welding and my buddy can powdercoat it all. We sat down and figured what it costs for materials and time and it didnt seem worth it to us because of the points mentioned above. For someone to possibly make 2 variations per year car (and still very very basic, say 302/351 motors) you need 6 sets of jigs for the hotside piping, then jigs for all the cold. Then add in since 10secgoal doesnt want intercoolers, you need 6 different jigs for cold side piping. Blow thru carb is relatively new concept for most people. I dunno what hes planning on offering in his kits but add up the money...

Piping - $150
blow off valve - $200
2 t3's or a single t76 - $650
blow thru carb - $600 or $500 + time to mod a dp carb
off the shelf headers - $200
vbands - $20
flanges - $40
bonnet - $40
hoses - $40
thats already $2k...then add in time, powdercoating or some type of coating, nuts and bolts, gaskets... parts alone are gonna cost in the neighborhood of $2300-2400 then add in his time for cutting all the pipes, making jigs, costs of tig welding (hopefully he can tig and has his own machine) then liability and costs of shop expenses. He needs to up his price. Look at any turbo company out there and look what all is included in their kits. Add up prices of all the equipment taht comes with it and you will see for an established turbo company to make $5-600 a kit its hard.. Most of those companies have hired help and a true shop/business location to pay for as well.

you will find that many people are going to demand things that will meet their requirements. Just read my thread HERE and see what people had to say.

"I'm interested in either a single or twin for 5.0 EFI with intercooler for a 1966 Mustang. The kit must be able to clear the stock style '87-93 Mustang A/C and P/S pumps and the stock 1966 Mustang shock towers though."

"I was gonna do a JY kit. I will be using a EFI 5.0 and I am very interested in a single intercooled kit. 76mm or 80mm would do me just fine."

"If its around 2k then its in the paxton range and I would be interested."

"I started down the path for a KB charger, but ran into concerns that there is no intercooler available."

You see people want intercoolers (which i would ALWAYS run one...rather be safe than sorry), they want it to fit THEIR application... lots of wants that need to be covered by the kit or its not going to sell. I for one wouldnt drop my power steering and a/c just for a turbo kit. The idea of a turbo kit is it has good daily driver features and reliability... a/c and power steering is not someting an old guy (that has $4000 for a kit) will sacrafice.

Sounds awesome, now if I can find a 66, and some cash somewhere......

69Rcode_Mach1 said:

Sounds awesome, now if I can find a 66, and some cash somewhere......

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I got a 66

DarkoStoj said:

I got a 66

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One day, One day.........it will be my third stang. I have always had a soft spot for a 66. And then I can build all the supsension components myself, and throw in a 347 with some sort of forced induction for the ultimate autocrosser.

Any chance of detuning this kit enough to keep it under block spitting levels?

Not sure if there's much of a market for Cleveland kits, but I'm in the San Diego area with a 351C powered 69 fastback. No A/C and powersteering worth losing.