Getting rid of the 2005-up throttle dead-play?

metroplex · Jul 29, 2008

Has anyone successfully found a long-term solution for eliminating the dead-play in the accelerator on a S197? I am not talking about throttle lag (a hesitation after going WOT) or throttle hang (where the throttle plate takes a split second to close after you've released the accelerator), but rather a mechanical 1/8"-1/4" dead-play in the throttle. I can tap the gas pedal repeatedly without ever causing the RPM's to rise. It's been documented that the brushes aren't contacting the traces in the transducer until a certain point.

So far there are 3 solutions, none of which seem to be "safe" for long-term use:
1). Bending the brushes
2). Using tape + material to pre-load the pedal
3). Shifting the cover to move the brush/trace contact point

Why hasn't anyone developed a permanent fix? This dead-play makes shifting the manual rather clunky.

walter · Jul 29, 2008

I'd also like to know why the revs jump by a couple hundred units every time I hit the clutch to change gears I hate to think what would happen when I lighten up the clutch and flywheel.

ARTTII · Jul 29, 2008

metroplex -

The dead play you are refferring to is by design. It is there to aid the driver. At cruise, tip-in and tip-out (accelerating / letting off, respectively) it is necessary to have this there to avoid a jerky or rough operation. It is meant to serve the purpose of having a cushion to the drivers foot, making the throttle less sensitive to drivers input. It is the type of thing that flatters the novice, but annoys a driver that is "in tune" with driving.

I have seen the instructions on how to remove/dissassemble/mod/replace the accelerator on the net. My advice is don't do it!

FYI, the options you mentioned (1&3) could get you in trouble if you perform them as far as you warranty is concerned (only for the gas pedal assembly itself). If you remove the assembly and and perform a mod to it, it is EASILY seen by Ford. I don't know how much it would be to replace, but I can imagine that it is not a cheap part if you have to buy a new one also.

Option 2 (preload) is also probably not the best. You would have to be really sure that nothing would cause the pedal to stick open (esp. at WOT) or any extra rpms...

The dead

walter said:
I'd also like to know why the revs jump by a couple hundred units every time I hit the clutch to change gears I hate to think what would happen when I lighten up the clutch and flywheel.

I hear what you are saying. It really used to get on my nerves. After 25k miles I don't even notice it anymore. I must have changed my driving habbits. I think it is something written in the strategy code, I don't think that changing a clutch/flywheel will have any effect on it.

metroplex · Jul 30, 2008

I don't buy the "cushion" by design theory. Why? It isn't there with cable throttles and hasn't been there since at least the 70s. So why bother with a cushion now? I want to tip in the throttle just a little when starting off from a stop and with feathering the clutch. Instead, I get too little gas or too much gas. Also, the 1-2 requires some gas for a smoother shift and again the throttle isn't sensitive.

walter · Jul 30, 2008

ARTTII said:
metroplex -

I hear what you are saying. It really used to get on my nerves. After 25k miles I don't even notice it anymore. I must have changed my driving habbits. I think it is something written in the strategy code, I don't think that changing a clutch/flywheel will have any effect on it.

It's funny the more I think about it, the more I think I have an answer to why he car does this from playing driving simulators. I think it may be a throttle autoblip feature to help people who don't know how to drive 5speed well make sure the revs not drop too much between shift.

What I'm concerned is that it is a programmed function somewhere that tells the car something along the lines of... if clutch = in, then open throttle 5-10% for 1 second. If that is the case you see why anything that lightens the rotational mass could cause a problem. In stock form the revs go up 2-400 rpm but with a flywheel/clutch combo and maybe even some pulleys the revs could go up 4-800 if you half the rotational mass. This is very annoying to have to factor into the driving and would be destructive to the clutch.

metroplex · Jul 30, 2008

I doubt that the RPM rise is a driving aid. When you upshift, you want the RPMs to drop at a rapid pace. When you downshift, the RPMs should rise from blipping the throttle.

Just this morning I went and tried pulling in the clutch. Lo and behold the RPMs rose a little and then dropped down again. The rise isn't enough to compensate for smooth downshifts if you're trying to pass someone. My guess is either the RPMs climb because the load is suddenly removed from the engine, or it is programmed for emissions/fuel consumption.

I read a 2002 press release revealing that the 2004 Explorer was one of Ford's first vehicles to receive drive by wire, and that it was designed to boost fuel economy by about 5% and reduce emissions. I can live with the throttle hang, but the dead play is a nuisance. At least the Stang doesn't have any throttle delay - OMFG that would drive me nuts especially with a 5-speed manual.

lexluthr69 · Jul 30, 2008

This is my number one complaint with the S197. I had hoped it would be corrected or at least mitigated with a tune as some folks had suggested, but no such luck. If I had easy access to a dealership I'd consider buying a second throttle assembly to physically adjust the brushes because I can't stand the delay. In stop n' go traffic it's horrendous. I'm not one to want to burn my clutch up, and by driving that way I take the risk of some idiot running into me if I stall it with not enough gas... It forces me to constantly be focusing on how much I'm bogging the motor down with each 1st gear go, and not necessarily on the rest of my situational awareness... ie is the guy in front of me slamming on his brakes, or is the guy behind me not quite slowing down as fast as I'd like, or maybe some idiot trying to merge into my lane specifically in the spot I currently occupy!

metroplex · Jul 30, 2008

I am tempted to go to my dealership and ask to buy like a dozen accelerator pedals and test fit each one to find one that has no dead play, then return the others. This dead play is annoying and makes driving the manual very clunky. Sometimes I am on the money (usually a Friday when I am psyched about the weekend) and all of my shifts are crisp. Then on Monday, it's clunk city.

NastyStang113 · Jul 30, 2008

Guys, this is NOT a big problem. Just get used to it ... It's something that happens with these systems.

The blip of the throttle is to aid in shifting. It's not hurting anything. I will agree that you have to get used to it but once you do it does help.

metroplex · Jul 30, 2008

I'll try to get used to it, but my next car is going to be Japanese or German.

LNOR · Jul 30, 2008

Look. If the lag between pedal pressure and throttle response is driving you nuts, just go to the link posted here and follow the excellent directions and photographs. I did mine several months ago and it turned out about 75% better, probably because I was not as agressive in taking the bends out of the brushes as I could have been. It is imperative that you use a tool with smooth jaw surfaces as gripper ridges would distort the very delicate brush strands. If in doubt about how much bend to take out, err on the side of caution.
DIY THROTTLE RESPONSE MOD (MUST SEE!)

NastyStang113 · Jul 30, 2008

metroplex said:
I'll try to get used to it, but my next car is going to be Japanese or German.

If this small problem is to not buy a domestic vehicle again than I feel bad for you...We won't miss you though.

metroplex · Jul 30, 2008

Not a big deal. My family and I have bought American made cars and American made tires for over 30 years and we just always end up with the short end of the stick with lots of quality issues and none of the manufacturers stand behind their products. Seeing how the Big 3 are collapsing, it's not a surprise.

The throttle issue was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Ford refuses to fix it or change the design and none of the aftermarket vendors are interested in developing a fix. Everyone just wants their chrome radio knobs and moleskin for their window tint or a stupid glassback roof. I have other quality issues with my Stang: driver's door that won't close properly and the fuel tank fill problem. Ford claims both are normal. The lack of global windows is also a disappointment. I consider the Mustang to be a disposable car, so it's not a big deal. I'll probably trade it in for a 370Z or Audi TTS when they come out.

red05bullitgt · Jul 30, 2008

Well I can tell you guys this, although you may find the throttle dead play issue as annoying. It does have one distinct advantage, it's very beneficial when starting from a dead spot, while on a steep upgrade.

Just my $.02

NastyStang113 · Jul 30, 2008

Cry less ... Seriously, this isn't a problem and you're making it out to be this horrible issue. The Audi TT is perfect? What a joke ... I race SCCA and can tell you that Audis break a LOT. My buddy has a completely stock Audi TT that is always broken and he does not race or drive hard. Matter of fact, both water pumps just went out last week, as well as his drivers side window does not go up.

metroplex · Jul 31, 2008

I dunno what type of TT he has, but I'll look at the Audi TTS (which is a more powerful 2nd gen TT) when they come out. I just won't be buying an American car in the future. The Mustang wasn't cheap either and I expected a lot more for the money in terms of quality.

metroplex · Jul 31, 2008

red05bullitgt said:
Well I can tell you guys this, although you may find the throttle dead play issue as annoying. It does have one distinct advantage, it's very beneficial when starting from a dead spot, while on a steep upgrade.
Just my $.02

Rocky, I'd rather have a cable throttle system or a drive by wire throttle that works properly. My 2000 Crown Vic's cable throttle works nicely. Tap the throttle and the RPMs rise. I just don't understand why Ford is so allergic to making a car that talks to the driver. BMW doesn't have this problem.

BudgetPlan1 · Jul 31, 2008

At 300HP for $23K brand new I'm not expecting world-class production values and can accept a few quirks.

metroplex · Jul 31, 2008

I'd rather pay a little more for a properly functioning throttle.

SlideWRX · Jul 31, 2008

ThumperMX113 said:
Guys, this is NOT a big problem. Just get used to it ... It's something that happens with these systems.

The blip of the throttle is to aid in shifting. It's not hurting anything. I will agree that you have to get used to it but once you do it does help.

Not a big problem, but a very annoying one.

My tape has been working for a year now without issue. People get paranoid about it falling off, but the car is sitting 90% of the time with the pedal pushing on the tape; it isn't going anywhere. Even if you drive 100,000+ miles a year most of the time the tape is being pushed into place.

Getting rid of the 2005-up throttle dead-play?

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