go go go vs drivability

KisStang · May 23, 2007

first off i got to say i already posted this question in the open forum (banana hamok republic) and instead of a damn answer they just gave me crap about me wanting to build a stang. i currently have a v6 sn95 ( dont boo just yet ) and am realy looking to make the car my dream car. its my pride and joy as i won the damn thing, like my ct says. all my life i have always wanted a car that was great for the track, could hold its own at the shows, and give me somthing to put my time and pride into.

what i am looking to do is get a 331 x long block from dss racing. it has a dart block, forged internals, afr 225 heads, and a number of different cam opptions. i am looking at a f303 cam because it has that idel rumble yet wont die on me at every light. with a nice exaust, and of course a good amount of suspension work. to top it all off i am wanting to run a twin turbo set up.

THE QUESTION is will a set up like this be drivable on the road? it will not be a daily driver, mainly just a weekend toy and then tuesday nights off to the drag strip. im still looking at 93 pump gas for the lower boost settings and probably race fuel for the track. has anyone ever seen someone with a set up like this and does anyone have any CONSTRUCTIVE things they could add, other then "get your priorities straight", and "you realy care to much about what people think of you" because i already got those. i realy just need help with getting this project planned out.

cbarr300 · May 23, 2007

those seem like REALLY big heads for a 331. maybe you could go with 185s or at least 205s

also, if you want a great cam...word on the street is....*this is a secret now*...that ed curtis is the man to talk to. I've heard nothing but good things about his custom ground cams...just tell him your combo and what you want out of the car...and BAM.

Oh yeah, and welcome to the forums...lots of smart people on here that can point you in the right direction...

oh..and you kissed the car and got it for free? how the hell does that work...I had to pay for mine

EDIT: I just realized that you are wanting to run a twin turbo setup...in that case those 225s would prolly be good....depends on the rest of the setup. Also, why not go for a 347...it's a dart block, might as well get the extra cubes for roughly the same cost. You could even run it up to a 363 on those blocks

final5-0 · May 23, 2007

To heck with those peeps who wanna steal your dream

What you say about the f-cam ..........
I'd have you to see ... there is more to it than that.

You say you wanna consider that cam for these reasons:
cam lope sound at idle
and
it won't die at idle

I would say the #1 thing on a priority list for cam choice would be:
One that works well with the rest of the combo to make good power

You can get a tune to take care of drivability issues :Word:

Cam lope is no sure fire indicator of a car that makes a lot of power
and
Some very fast turbo cars use the stock cam

Pick a cam for power and tune the pcm for drivability

Grady

badstang123 · May 23, 2007

I wish I had 20K plus to drop on a motor and TT's

vyal · May 23, 2007

I figured i'de chime in here though most of what i know about this comes from lots of reading and talking to a machinist and less firsthand knowledge. From what ive *heard* the AFR 205/225s dont make good heads for a street car as the valves are designed/positioned differently vs the 165/185 casting. That being said, ide imagine that a smaller valve would have better drivability characteristics when not under boost and allow you to spool a little faster while possibly loosing a bit at the top end (but thats what you have boost for in the first place). As far as a cam is concerned talking to Ed is probably not a bad idea, but as a previous poster stated alot of guys prefer to run cams pretty close to the stock characteristics with little overlap. Personnaly if it was me ide go the smaller cam smaller heads route and let the boost make the power up top, after all, in a turbo system its not costing you any more to do it....

sage2k · May 23, 2007

if you're gonna spend almost 10k$ on a motor id at least spend a couple extra hundred and get a custom cam IMO

KisStang · May 24, 2007

thanks a ton guys. ya i just caught wind that you can get him to make you a custome ground cam to realy make it a well tuned beast. as for the heads that pretty much answers my questions. i need to look into a bit further. however for the long block i am wanting they dont offer the 185 heads. the 205 they do. also for an extra grand i could get a 410, would that be worth the investment??? ... i dont know if i could handle that, and the turbos needed would be HUGE. here is the site for the long block i am looking at for all who dont knwo about dss http://www.dssracing.com/newxxr.htm . also i looked at the twisted wedge heads but someone told me for every 5 people that use them, 4 end up going with afr. are they realy that much better? i just want a car that can go through the drive through without overheating, because ill be eating off the dollar menu for a while to be able to fund this one

KisStang · May 24, 2007

p.s. as for the kissing a mustang thing. there was a contest on my campus (indiana university) and 25 people were drawn to kiss a car (my mustang) i was drawn and for 12 hrs stood there with my lips plastered to the thing. then they made us stand on one foot and periodically hold our hands over our heads. they just wanted the contest to be over so they could go drink. needless to say the other kid collapst due to muscle failure and i won. so ya i love my stang on a level that not many can top.

cbarr300 · May 24, 2007

well....that makes for a fun story lol

if you have the chedda.....go for a dart blocked 427 (or 410 if you want). keep in mind though that you will need to get parts for a 351 (exhaust, dizzy if it doesn't come with one, possibly a new hood depending on cross member, etc)

those blocks are impressive....

you could run a shot of nitrous off the line to get you going and while the turbos are spooled if you wanted.

I don't know much about turbo systems so I can't say anything about the size you'd need.

what I can tell you is get a goal and stick with it...otherwise:

1. it's never fast enough
2. you buy/resell parts

trust me, it really adds up fast.

Me, I'd be happy with a twin turbo 347 with a good h/c/i...along with a shot of nitrous possibly.

of course...you're gonna need a new tranny, rearend, etc...but you're gonna have to buy some of that stuff anyway since you're doing a swap

sage2k · May 24, 2007

what are you gonna do for a transmission and rear end? tuning?
look at the whole picture
a twin turbo 331 with 205 heads, im sure it will rape your stock t5 or aode

KisStang · May 24, 2007

o god ya i know it will shred an aod or a t5. my buddy has a 95 5.0 and he blows through a t5 every year. i was looking at the t56 but i understand they are only good for 500 hp. my buddies dad who has a drag car said i should run a built c4 tranny and stick with an auto because the #s i am talking about would be to much to handle in stick car.

i want to build this thing as a start for me to get into the parts industry. my goal in the next 5 to 10 years is to open myt own performance shop and i just figure that the money i spend on my car is an investment to get me into the scene where i can meet the people who will help me accomplish my dreams. also how can you respect someone trying to sell you parts for your car when the only thing they know about them is what they have read in the handouts.

Black95GTS · May 24, 2007

If you're going dart... this is what I'd do:

Get a big bore (4.125) 8.2" deck and stroke it giving you a 363.5 CI. Use the AFR 225s which are designed for the 4.125 bore. Choice of intake is up to you after that, but I'd keep it fuel injected and use either a Vic5.0 or a Vic5.8. Go to Ed Curtis for the whole package as he does things to the AFR springs and valves that is proven and reliable.

Don't listen to anyone saying AFR 225s are too big, or are not a good street head. Thats crap. A twin turbo AFR 225 headed 364 will get you to the 1000 HP mark if its built correctly. For spooling turbo's... its all about the stroke!

Adam

Stanger007 · May 24, 2007

LOL is this for real?

rj95svt · May 24, 2007

I agree with what black95gts said. AFR 225 heads are not to big for a big bore 363 stroker but for a 331 you would probly get more usable power with 205's. A set of TEA ported twisted wedges would be a good choice also people make 400rwhp NA with those on 331's and 347's. I would also use a super victor intake setup for fuel injection. If I was building this combo my tranny of choice would be a lentech aod with a transbrake so you could spool this thing up good off the line and still have od. A C4 is a decent trans but would have to be heavily modified as would the AOD and your wanting driveability so personally I'd like the overdrive. This will be a pretty wild combo and you'll have to upgrade the whole car to handle the power it will be capable of. Not to say it won't be driveable but parts break when you make alot of power and that is true for any high power combo but If done correctly with a good tune this thing could be very docile until you start getting into boost.

When having this beast tuned I'd have a couple tunes done including a higher boost race gas tune done so you can dispose of those pesky supra's

final5-0 · May 24, 2007

Stanger007 said:
LOL is this for real?

Everybody starts off with a big dream
I know I did

I'm not saying anyone should settle for less

I am saying ... crawl, walk, then run
or
see what na 250 to 300 is like
then
see how that combo can become 400ish with a pa
then
be prepared to dig really deep in the ole pocket book
if
you wanna take it to the next level

Hey .. its good to explore all the possibilities

Grady

Adam706 · May 24, 2007

you got that kinda money to build a stang, and you win a free car! life's unfair! lmao

go go go vs drivability

KisStang

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cbarr300

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final5-0

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vyal

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