Going with the trick flow kit...few questions

[Timmey9]

I have an 87 speed density mustang and plan on going with the trick flow kit from summit. What else do i need to make the kit complete and work on my car.

SO far i plan on:

Trick flow kit- $2050
BBK 75mm TB- $200
BBK 75mm EGR- $70


and this is where the questions come in. I know i need to convert to mass air to run a cam and bigger injectors, but what size injectors? 24# or 30#?

Do i need a bigger fuel pump? what size 190lph? 155lph?

What is the cheapest way to do the mass air conversion since i believe i will need bigger injectors?

Is there anything missing for the summit kit that i will need for installation?

Do i need an adjustable FPR?

Should i install and make sure my mass air works before tearing down the engine?

Any tips or advice would be great.


i also have exhaust, gears and a CAI if it makes a difference.

How much do you think the final product will cost? Thanks

 

[Chris6050]

-I think you would be ok going with 24# injectors but definately wouldn't hurt getting 30#.

-a 190 or 255 fuel pump would be better choice than the 155.

-I'm not really sure what would be the cheapest/best way for the mass air.

-An adjustable fuel pressure regulator is defintately a good idea.

-As far as I know the summit kit has everything you need to install.

 

[Mean88]

You can run bigger injectors and cams with speed density, contrary to popular belief. The tfs stg 1 cam is right on the limit for the speed density computer, but it should work. I have h/c/i on my car with a 70mm tb, 1.7 rr and longtubes. I still am retaining the stock speed density computer, and I am running mid 12s at over 107 on the engine. I suppose I shouldnt have opened my mouth on this, because everyone here at stangnet is going to shove mass air bs down my throat. I havent switched, and I am not going too. Btw, visit 50tech.com if you want more info on speed density combos.

Ted

 

[astronut1885]

Hey man. I just did a full H/C/I a few months back, and it was an interesting time. It's alot of fun, and a big pain at the same time. As far as what you've selected, I almost went with that setup. It's a really nice kit, and it's setup perfectly for the street.
Here's what you should go with for the stuff you asked:
-255 LPH pump (that way if you ever need more flow,say for a blower, you have it)
-75mm Pro-M MAF calibrated for 24# injectors
-FRPP 24# injectors
-70MM TB+EGR spacer (75 is too big, and requires port matching to intake, and is really a waste of time. it can actually slow airflow into the intake, 70mm is the biggest reccomended for n/a motors)
-Kirban AFPR
-Computer from 1989 mustang, labeled A9L or A9P (if you've got an auto tranny, get a computer from an auto, if you're stick, get whatever one you can. 89 had the best computer for performance capability, with better fuel curves and such)
-MAF sensor plug/harness from same car (it's a four prong plug that goes into the MAF meter, you need it to splice into the computer harness and plug in your meter)
-A new water pump if you can afford it (it's worth it while you're in there, they're pretty cheap, you don't want to have to go back in later if it croaks)
-New spark plugs, oil, fluids, engine assembly lube
-New radiator if needed (mine was crap, the whole bottom fin section gone, and you want to keep your new motor nice and cool anyway. PepBoys has a nice 2 core replacement for like 80.00, and a 3 core heavy duty for around 170)
-New lifters (it's a good idea to get them, old ones can have wear that matches the old cam's wear, not a necessity, but a good thing to get, I reused mine because I didn't have enough money.)
-Complete FelPro Ford 302HO High Performance gasket kit (the one Trickflow has is incomplete, you're gonna need way more than what they have included.)
-A phenolic intake manifold spacer is a good thing to have, it keeps the upper cooler, providing a denser air charge, and improves torque by lengthening the runners in the intake.
-Lots of hoses and tubing of different sizes (your stock vacuum lines and coolant lines could be beat, you don't want to get stuck without replacement tubing)
-Fuel pressure gauge (either a 2 5/8 or 2 1/16 to mount on the cowl or in an interior pod with an isolator, or a small 1 3/4" one that goes on the fuel line, you'll need something to set the f/p by)

Have extra money on hand, like a few hundred dollars, because believe me stuff comes up. After I did my H/C/I, the day after in fact, my oil pump went off the deep end and nearly blew my motor. It had to be replaced, Then my radiator needed to be replaced, my old one was in rough shape. Also, have lots of oil and fluids around, because once together, you have to do a break in period. Use good tools, and follow instructions meticulously. Engine component assembly is one thing you don't want to hack. Install the MAF conversion and injectors before the motor is to be done, I'd say atleast a week like I did, to make sure it's working ok. If you plan on having any porting work done to the heads or intake, get that done long before the motor build, that way there's no rush. I wish I'd have had the cash to get my stuff worked, but you can only do so much. Good luck, and feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

 

[astronut1885]

Ted- as far as I know, and I'm sure others will back me, you CAN NOT upgrade injectors with the SD system. The programming is set to work with only 19s, and will not recalibrate for bigger flow rates. It is true that some mild cams, like my E cam and the TFS stage 1, will run on SD, but a full H/C/I car will run into severe lean problems because the car will not supplement the fuel delivery to match the airflow like a MAF car does. I don't want to jack the guy's thread with a MAF vs. SD debate, but I think for his sake an adaptive, thinking system is better than a set in stone, one way only system.

 

[Mean88]

Ted- as far as I know, and I'm sure others will back me, you CAN NOT upgrade injectors with the SD system. The programming is set to work with only 19s, and will not recalibrate for bigger flow rates. It is true that some mild cams, like my E cam and the TFS stage 1, will run on SD, but a full H/C/I car will run into severe lean problems because the car will not supplement the fuel delivery to match the airflow like a MAF car does. I don't want to jack the guy's thread with a MAF vs. SD debate, but I think for his sake an adaptive, thinking system is better than a set in stone, one way only system.

I agree with the above, although I have seen some guys run 24 and 30 pound injectors on their sd computers. As far as the lean thing, I have adjusted that out completely with the adfpr(50psi still running 19# inj.). My fuel curve may not be as fine tuned as a maf one, but it defanitely works well. For him it would be the easiest to change, but once you learn how to work around the sd parameters you would be surprised what you can do with the system. I guess I am just a littly edgy about the issue, because so many people talk s#it about it.
Best of luck
Ted

 

[astronut1885]

Hey, I'm the last one to knock it when someone does something outside the box. As far as tuning with the AFPR, it can work wonders, but that's for someone with alot of knowledge about car systems. I can get away with running 40-42 psi, and I probably get better gas mileage than you would with 51 psi. As far as running bigger injectors, I can't see how that would work, be cause the computer controlled injection pulses are set for 19s, and a 19# injector's durations will be very different from a 24 or 36 injector. I'd be interested to see it in action, and how it works. But yeah, still say for a beginner getting an H/C/I, MAF is the way to go. It takes alot of guess work out of the equation, and does alot of the minor tuning for you.

 

[-86GTStang]

Nice kit...

..and you need a oil filler kit.(TF got one) and use Trick Flow EGR spacer, Summit number, TFS-515EGR70,because of better clearance for adj. fuel reg.etc.
Good Luck with it

 

[astronut1885]

Good point. I forgot about the oil filler neck. And the EGR spacer by TFS is a nice unit.

 

[Timmey9]

Whats this about the oil filler neck?

What gaskets are missing from the trick flow kit?

What is a good AFPR

I am trying to save as much money as possible but not loseing power. SO any advice would be great.

 

[QDRHRSE]

Speed density

You can run bigger injectors and cams with speed density, contrary to popular belief. The tfs stg 1 cam is right on the limit for the speed density computer, but it should work. I have h/c/i on my car with a 70mm tb, 1.7 rr and longtubes. I still am retaining the stock speed density computer, and I am running mid 12s at over 107 on the engine. I suppose I shouldnt have opened my mouth on this, because everyone here at stangnet is going to shove mass air bs down my throat. I havent switched, and I am not going too. Btw, visit 50tech.com if you want more info on speed density combos.

Ted

Nope, wrong....there are a few guys here that like speed density. Although your set up has got to be on the ragged edge for the computer. If I'm not mistaken alot of the high dollar stand alone computers, like DFI, are speed density.

 

[astronut1885]

Trickflow valve covers require a special oil filler neck piece that they sell, so you'll need that. A Kirban AFPR is good, I use a Crane unit, and Aeromotive makes a nice one too. As far as gaskets go, I looked at the Summit catalog, and I didn't see alot of stuff, like intake gaskets, throttle body gaskets, and water pump gaskets. Plus, it's better to have extras around just in case (I har to go to autozone five times to get the right gaskets).