GOOD SET-UPS...

6FIVE_STANG · Jul 20, 2006

Ok, right now I have a 289 with a EDEL. perfomer intake and a HOLLEY 570CFM carb.

I plan to change the intake to either a performer RPM or AIR GAP(not sure which is better?)

Nows my question is what is a good cam to match and what else do i need to buy to match this set-up? (is this a good start?)

-NOTE: daily driver looking to get 350HP+
_THANKS!_

Max Power · Jul 20, 2006

If you want even a prayer of getting close to 350 horsepower, you will need aftermarket heads.

washMO66 · Jul 20, 2006

Max Power said:
If you want even a prayer of getting close to 350 horsepower, you will need aftermarket heads.

+1 - The heads

6FIVE_STANG · Jul 20, 2006

Yeh I know. Im planing on getting some TRICK FLOWS or GT-40X in a few months.

But can i do that after i do a few mods or should I buy that first?

6FIVE_STANG · Jul 20, 2006

Im only 17 and have little knowledge about my car.

For right now i was going to buy:
-Intake
-Air Cleaner
-Cam
-Alternator
-Ignition System

Am I in the right track?

Shakin66 · Jul 20, 2006

Theres nothing wrong with being young, at times I wish I could go back in time myself. If I were you I would look into all of those parts you mentioned but dont do what I did in my youth and spend $ on the engine without changing the rear gears to a more agressive ratio 3:25-3:70. I finally changed that and the car was turned into a beast in one afternoon.

6FIVE_STANG · Jul 20, 2006

Ok, what should I start upgrading first to last?

jerry S · Jul 20, 2006

6FIVE_STANG said:
Yeh I know. Im planing on getting some TRICK FLOWS or GT-40X in a few months.

But can i do that after i do a few mods or should I buy that first?

the GT-40X heads are not even in the same league as the Trick Flows. Get the AFR 165s if you can.

In terms of your last question, in what order should you proceed, you will need to replace the

1. Heads
2. Cam
3. Intake

in order to take full advantage of the power gains you will see. It will cost you more money to do this 2 or 3 times compared to all at once. So save your money and wait. Heed the lesson of the parable of the young bull and the old bull (from the movie colors)

The young bull and old bull are out strolling together when they see a herd of cows. The young bull says to the old bull,

"Why don't we run down this hill and f**k us one of them cows?" to which the old bull rhetorically asked;

"why don't we just walk down and f**k all of them?"

Get the picture?

Before settling on the heads, you have to be sure of your pistons. Did the PO swap them out? You see, if you put new heads on thinking you will get a 10:1 CR but instead, you have a 8:1 CR because your pistons are not what you think they are, you are screwed. You will have spent lots of money and gotten yourself a dog in return.

Get a cam matched to your head flow. The flow data is out there so cam selection is not such a big secret anymore. Make sure that you make your power in a range that the crank can sustain and the valve springs can take. Guys that tell you to get Edelbrock Victor parts where the power band is between 4-8000 rpm are full of stuff and nonsense. With a 289, look for a cam that makes its power between 1500-6500. Get a cam that is within spec for the lift on the valve springs (.550 of lift for AFRs for example, which is a hefty cam) on your new heads.

I like the AIR Gap over the Performer.

jS

6FIVE_STANG · Jul 20, 2006

so my best bet is to save up about 5,000 and build the motor....
better start working overtime!

jerry S · Jul 20, 2006

6FIVE_STANG said:
so my best bet is to save up about 5,000 and build the motor....
better start working overtime!

$5 large is pretty high unless your labor rates are high

$1400 for AFR heads
$200 air gap intake
$200 cam shaft

According to my math, that is $1800 in parts. I think the labor to install all of the above would be about 10 hours. At $50 an hour, that is $500, for about $2500 out the door after sales tax and what not.

If this 289 has a bottom end that is about 40 years old, you might consider freshening that up. You are only as strong as your weakest link and 40 year old main bearings ain't exactly the Rock of Gibraltar.

D.Hearne · Jul 20, 2006

You don't HAVE to change the cam and heads to see gains. Sure, it would be nice, but at your age, you'll likely never get the money saved to do it all at once, unless you're exceptionally disapplined. Do what you can afford now, the intake. As you have the money, you can do a cam swap later, the only thing you'll be buying twice is intake gaskets, those aren't going to break you. And later, you can do heads again there,(if you ever get the money saved at your age ) you'll be buying intake gaskets again, and again a third set isn't going to break the bank, intake gaskets don't cost THAT much. I may be 47 years old, but I still remember how tough it was when I was a teenager to get just the money to do a 4 bbl swap, and that was with used parts. Either of the RPM's will still net you some oompf! on the top end over the Performer, even with the stock heads and cam. If you really want to save, buy a used RPM intake. That's what I usually do, intakes rarely ever wear out. I think the last new intake I bought ( a big block RPM for a 390) I turned around and resold it in favor of a used factory 428PI intake. Even the Ford A321 I have on my Ranger was bought second hand, but still new in the box. Just don't buy a used flat tappet cam. Shop for a nice set of used heads if and when you get the money. Everyone touts the AFR's but any aftermarket heads will net you a gain for the money. I was going for a set of Brodix heads when I ran across the Canfields I have now. The Canfields are the equal of AFR165's, & I bought em new in the box, but again, second hand off Ebay for $1100. You'll also need to remember to have the money for roller rockers, screw in studs (if the heads don't have em already) and new pushrods to go with the heads, so plan on another $300-350 extra for that when you shop for heads.

57fairlane · Jul 20, 2006

If you are going to mess with the motor at all, get the best heads YOU can afford.

If its a budget-builder, find a set of E7TE heads and learn to port them. Carbide bits are roughy $15-20 a piece or the $50 set through summit. If you don't have an air compressor you might want to make friends with someone who does. After you feel comfortable, move on to the 289 heads.

At this point, the next step up is a set of 69 or 70 351 heads or GT-40 irons. You probably wouldn't want to port these without consulting a head porter in your area.

Then you start getting into aluminum heads. Cheapo ebay ones run $800 assembled while decent AFRs/Twisted Wedge/Canfields run $1000 and up.

For 350 fwhp, you will need ported heads.

The better the head, the more mild a cam you can run.
Something like a 218/224 on a 110 would probably put you where you want to be with ported stock heads/ Performer RPM etc . . .

3.55s, h-pipe, decent muffler . . .

For cheap you could get 260 rwhp with a stick no problem.

iskwezm · Jul 20, 2006

on my ol' 289 I had a 270* cam with .484 lift and a Performer manifold/650 CFM carb and .060 "stock" block. It put out 305 RWHP. I was amazed as well as the guy that runs the dyno, but then i got greedy and put some RPM heads and bigger cam and lost HP.

66Runt · Jul 20, 2006

Just a thought

If you are going to take the intake off anyways, a head gasket kit from Rockauto.com wouldn't be that much. If you can get your hands on a die grinder, and do some thorough research, you *could* do a port match and maybe even clean up the exhaust a little bit. Heck, there is enough good write ups on the internet with pictures, that you could actually do a lot more than a "little clean up" with some patience and attention to detail.
So now you've got a set of better breathing stock heads to go with the cam and the intake. That would get you by until you can buy some nice heads. And don't get caught up on name brands either. there are some darned good heads out there cheaper than AFR's and Trick Flows.

Anyways, just a thought. Good luck,

Scott

D.Hearne · Jul 20, 2006

I did a set of E7's (two sets now) The first set, while I can't give you hard numbers, I'm sure work far better than they were. All I did to these was open up the exhaust ports on the sides and roof to match a header gasket, then expanded and blended the passages into the bowls under the valve. I left the floor's as is, other than polishing with a sander roll. The opening up included removing the thermactor bumps in the roof. With good bits, all this can be done in less than an hour per head. I also polished the chambers, also removing the sharp corners to eliminate hot spots. The intake sides, I pretty much left alone, other than removing casting flash or any other sharp edges. Also gasket matched them. All this doesn't take a professional to do it, just a steady hand and common sense. After the grinding and polishing I had the local machineshop do a valve job and the seats were finished with a Serdi machine.

jerry S · Jul 21, 2006

D.Hearne said:
You don't HAVE to change the cam and heads to see gains.

I think he HAS to change the heads and cam if he wants to see his stated aim of getting 350 HP.

D.Hearne · Jul 21, 2006

But you keep forgetting he's a teenager with shallow pockets. What he wants and can afford are two very different things.

jerry S · Jul 21, 2006

D.Hearne said:
But you keep forgetting he's a teenager with shallow pockets. What he wants and can afford are two very different things.

When I was 17 back in 1984, my brother and I bought a new ski boat for $8000, 50/50. We wanted it.

$4000 back then is a lot more than $4000 now, that's for sure. I worked my ass off to pay for that boat. If he wants 350 hp, he can afford it. He just has to work for it.

D.Hearne · Jul 21, 2006

Oh, I agree, but I also recall the other "wants" of a teenager as well that tend to bleed off cash. $4000 may not be a lot of money to some, and to me it's still a chunk of change and hard to save that kind of money on a limited income. he can do it piece meal and not break the bank doing his own work. Like I said before, the only parts he'll have to buy more than once are gaskets. And doing things more than once is good experience at his age.

blascrw · Jul 21, 2006

heads

While I agree with the heads...I have some input...

I am no expert so this is my .02

granted he will not get 350 this way...

but I say consider leaving the heads unless you have the money to do the whole engine...

if you change to a newer head aftermerket of Ford you WILL loose compression.

The chamber size of the early head is smaller than any head I think produced now.

having said that you can get different pistons and increase compression...

http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/012253.html

Read this: http://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/BudgetSmallBlock.html

and this: http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/26821/index.html

and this: http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techarticles/39446/

and this: http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/mufp_0506_budgets/

There is another site..cant find it now... a subscription site has lots of good info...

I rebuilt my first v8 when I was 13...

It can be done, and can be done on a budget...

Plan PLan Plan

Make sure you think of the parts together working as a whole...

Big AFR heads will do you more harm than good unless you take careful consideration...

Find a local track...find a guy who has been racing a while...running vintage iron...a roller block is a different beast and reacts differently to different mods.

make sure you also consider the "streetability" of the car... a 350hp at the wheels is not exactly a street friendly car for a teenager...

Plus alot of these mods will REQUIRE you use premium fuel. and you will not get good gas mileage...also something to consider...

just my .02

lastly I cannot stress it is a package...you must plan for it as a package...

If you really want to spend 5k...consider crate engine...has a warranty...Mustangs unlimited 5.0 GT40x 345HP crate 3200.00 still money left...

Ron

GOOD SET-UPS...

6FIVE_STANG

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