So, I just had a new clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, throw out and pilot bearing installed. It feels much better but there is still like this kind of grindy feeling when I push the pedal in. Sometimes it squeaks, but overall is just feels a little crumby and I don't really know how to describe it. Anyway I have seen where these cars have a plastic clutch quadrant and a spring. Do y'all think a new quadrant and removing the spring would help? Or maybe just removing the spring? I'd be fine if it was a little heavier but felt smooth. I also feel like the clutch is always trying to pop back out and it makes it kind of hard to he smooth sometimes. Thanks!!
Grindy/squeaky clutch pedal
- Thread starter Cantwine
- Start date
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08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi,
What year is this Mustang?
Did the people who installed the clutch replace the throwout & pilot bearings with -Ford OE products, and what clutch disc/Flywheel/Pressure plate MFG’s are you running? Miles on the clutch(?) Manually adjust the existing plastic quadrant, first.
If the TB has a gap between it & the pressure plate fingers, it has to spin from 0 to your launch RPM every time, also does this when you disengage to swap gears.
There needs to be a slight amount of contact between the pressure plate fingers & the TB, just enough to keep them rotating at the same speed.
Yes, you can use a light extension spring to simulate that load from the TB to clutch fingers, spring on the clutch fork to add a light load to the TB, see if the noise clears up at all The OE pedal adjuster generally takes care of this, but once older, need replacing. An aftermarket quadrat is a common upgrade, an adjustable clutch cable firewall adjuster are both very useful.
With the clutch cable disconnected. test your cable for binding, excess resistance. Spray some on blaster or WD40 on the top of the cable, so it can migrate downwards, see if that helps. If it’s not helping, the wire rope inside has likely frayed, broken. Replace. Crawl under & test your pedal for no play in its bushings, another cycling it manually, both connected and disconnected to the clutch fork.
Carefully, Ebrake on tight, wheel chocks (or lifted in the front with jack & stands) Have a friend help....Start car in neutral. Push in your clutch fork a little bit, and release it~ slowly Any noises noted, when pushed in & pulled back?
After a drive, parked on a flat surface, when you put the car in neutral, let the clutch out, does the car “creep” forward very slightly?
Let the installer know of your issues. First off
Best!
John
What year is this Mustang?
Did the people who installed the clutch replace the throwout & pilot bearings with -Ford OE products, and what clutch disc/Flywheel/Pressure plate MFG’s are you running? Miles on the clutch(?) Manually adjust the existing plastic quadrant, first.
If the TB has a gap between it & the pressure plate fingers, it has to spin from 0 to your launch RPM every time, also does this when you disengage to swap gears.
There needs to be a slight amount of contact between the pressure plate fingers & the TB, just enough to keep them rotating at the same speed.
Yes, you can use a light extension spring to simulate that load from the TB to clutch fingers, spring on the clutch fork to add a light load to the TB, see if the noise clears up at all The OE pedal adjuster generally takes care of this, but once older, need replacing. An aftermarket quadrat is a common upgrade, an adjustable clutch cable firewall adjuster are both very useful.
With the clutch cable disconnected. test your cable for binding, excess resistance. Spray some on blaster or WD40 on the top of the cable, so it can migrate downwards, see if that helps. If it’s not helping, the wire rope inside has likely frayed, broken. Replace. Crawl under & test your pedal for no play in its bushings, another cycling it manually, both connected and disconnected to the clutch fork.
Carefully, Ebrake on tight, wheel chocks (or lifted in the front with jack & stands) Have a friend help....Start car in neutral. Push in your clutch fork a little bit, and release it~ slowly Any noises noted, when pushed in & pulled back?
After a drive, parked on a flat surface, when you put the car in neutral, let the clutch out, does the car “creep” forward very slightly?
Let the installer know of your issues. First off
Best!
John
if this is what i think it is i spent forever trying to figure out what the gritty feeling and squeak is... turns out its the pilot bearing rubbing against the clutch fingers. it used to work if i put just a tad of grease on the tob face, but the grease dries in a few days and its back to squeaking and feeling gritty.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi,
it’s not necessary for you to grease anything on the Throwout Bearing, it’s packed with all the grease it needs from the factory & sealed.Should outlive a properly installed clutch ass’y.
You’d meant the ” contacting the pressure plate’s fingers, not the Pilot bearing - correct?.-correct?
Only areas that require any lubricant is a skin thick dab of grease on the outside edge of the Transmission input shaft where it contacts to pilot, the ot hip better applied with a finger bearing (Should be pre-greased, if so you may leave it & the shaft as is).
The retainer shaft, which the TB rides on can get worn where the bearing normally rides & cause the bearing to contact the fingers at an angle, causing a noisy engagement, disengagement, finally a failed TB.
Only other surface(s) that lubrication helps is a very thin layer of never seize on the retainer that where the TB travels, a small amount on the splines once any nicks or burrs are addressed.
Another Common issue is people not running a Ford OEM Pilot bearing, run in all Ford T-5, T-45 Transmissions from the factory:
Ford Performance Mustang Roller Pilot Bearing M-7600-A (79-95 V8 Mustang) - Free Shipping
FREE SHIPPING! Extra Insurance. To extend the life of your Mustangs new clutch it is highly recommended to replace that old and worn out stock pilot bearing wit
www.americanmuscle.com
Or a FORD OEM Throwout bearing in the Clutch Install, nothing is better than OE at these HP/TQ levels:
Another issue overlooked is the bolted sleeve around the Transmission input shaft, (bearing retainer), and the operation of the TB, sometimes forks may bend under a binding clutch load is exerted, cable disconnected, run the Throwout bearing on the retainer where it sits & slides on, view the angle at which the fingers are being struck
If the angle is visibly off, or the TB wobbles during its cycling,.Check the below.
Tran Tb& motor mounts, all bolts (Bellhousing) starter, VV joints, get a barc& look for any loose, worn parts using leverage.
Does the car creep as I’d previously asked?
What type of clutch is installed, Oe bearings used?
How many miles on the clutch?
Adjust the clutch so the TB is contacting the fingers, about 1/16”-3/:32”. Run with a helper spring, if it works ok, I’d go with a firewall adjuster &!a quadrant if it isn’t working correctly..
Good luck!
-John
Ahaha I wrote that in the middle of the night excuse me, I was referring to the rob not pilot. I've had terrible luck honestly with Ford's pilot bearings. 3rd one without 15k miles and it still squeals at idle. It seems like Ford isn't using the proper lubricant and it dries out over time. I've just learned to live with it at this pointHi,
it’s not necessary for you to grease anything on the Throwout Bearing, it’s packed with all the grease it needs from the factory & sealed.Should outlive a properly installed clutch ass’y.
You’d meant the ” contacting the pressure plate’s fingers, not the Pilot bearing - correct?.-correct?
Only areas that require any lubricant is a skin thick dab of grease on the outside edge of the Transmission input shaft where it contacts to pilot, the ot hip better applied with a finger bearing (Should be pre-greased, if so you may leave it & the shaft as is).
The retainer shaft, which the TB rides on can get worn where the bearing normally rides & cause the bearing to contact the fingers at an angle, causing a noisy engagement, disengagement, finally a failed TB.
Only other surface(s) that lubrication helps is a very thin layer of never seize on the retainer that where the TB travels, a small amount on the splines once any nicks or burrs are addressed.
Another Common issue is people not running a Ford OEM Pilot bearing, run in all Ford T-5, T-45 Transmissions from the factory:
Ford Performance Mustang Roller Pilot Bearing M-7600-A (79-95 V8 Mustang) - Free Shipping
FREE SHIPPING! Extra Insurance. To extend the life of your Mustangs new clutch it is highly recommended to replace that old and worn out stock pilot bearing wit
Or a FORD OEM Throwout bearing in the Clutch Install, nothing is better than OE at these HP/TQ levels:
Another issue overlooked is the bolted sleeve around the Transmission input shaft, (bearing retainer), and the operation of the TB, sometimes forks may bend under a binding clutch load is exerted, cable disconnected, run the Throwout bearing on the retainer where it sits & slides on, view the angle at which the fingers are being struck
If the angle is visibly off, or the TB wobbles during its cycling,.Check the below.
Tran Tb& motor mounts, all bolts (Bellhousing) starter, VV joints, get a barc& look for any loose, worn parts using leverage.
Does the car creep as I’d previously asked?
What type of clutch is installed, Oe bearings used?
How many miles on the clutch?
Adjust the clutch so the TB is contacting the fingers, about 1/16”-3/:32”. Run with a helper spring, if it works ok, I’d go with a firewall adjuster &!a quadrant if it isn’t working correctly..
Good luck!
-John
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi,
Unusual... Ford TOB’s & Pilots are all I’ve ever used, I’ve installed dozens of Mustang and other Mfg’s clutches to date- never had a Ford pilot bearing failure.
Reasons may range from the transmission input shaft bearing being defective, input shaft bent or the input shaft being too long, input shaft bearing surface rough, improper alignment.
Simply put, if you’re taking out Ford pilot bearings, there is a component or alignment issue that is causing excess heat
If your running an aftermarket fork, or the stock one is bent, I’ve corrected a few that cause TOB issues, place a huge axial load on the pilot bearing.
Somethings not quite right, initial thought is Transmission/input shaft alignment.
I’ve run OE bearings in cars upward of 800 RWHP with no issues. Plenty of DD’s.
Running an aftermarket crank?
Original vehicle’s transmission?
Transmission ever rebuilt?
How are you installing these?
Have you run an indicator on the input shaft to check concentricity?
This noise ever heard while the car is driving with the clutch fully engaged, or only when the pedal is depressed?
Best.
-John
I've never had a problem with the pilot bearing, just the throw out. Rebuilt be tranny and everything, no play in input shaft. The tob has never failed for there to be a problem, it just squeals at engine idle but as soon as I put the slightest but of pressure on the clutch, it disappears. It can easily be solved with a adjustable clutch cable to put a bit more preload on the bearing, but there's still no reason for the bearing to start squealing that soon. Other than the sound, there's zero issues with it and I push my car hard.
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi, Ok- misinterpretation.l Pilot’s ok.Roger that.
I agree with adjustment. TOB’s generally like to run at engine RPM rather than ramping up to that speed every time you cycle the clutch. As you’re having the issue with this noise so early on, take a few minutes to be certain the TB is mating up to the pressure plate fingers perfectly flat & there’s no bearing wobble occurring . If the TB strikes the fingers at an angle, Temperature rises quick, too hot, which will plain & simple, destroy the T.bearing.
I’ve had to shim retainers, slot the mounting holes& dowel pin them so they don’t move afterwards just to get optimal bearing alignment in transmissions in a few T-5’s, T-45’s, Muuncies, Toploaders due to casting anomalies & machining errors.
I’m not suggesting yours is one of those few, only giving you heads up it does occur, in your best interest to check everything while you’re there, to measure things & check everything down to the ball pivot, fork, cable stretch, pedal bushings, etc.
Factory calls for 8lbs of pedal force against the pressure plate fingers, I just let it bump the fingers, bring it in a hair (about a dime’s width) & see how it sounds. A firewall cable adjuster will cure that, quadrant as well if your OE isn’t working as it should be, if there’s no preload, it’s time to upgrade.
Have you tried to manually set the plastic adjuster’s pawl?
You could try an extension spring & add a bit of temporary preload to see if it clears up, but honestly- if you’re able- I’d not waste the time & just order the parts.
If $$ is an issue, go for the firewall mount adjuster, I take it you don’t have an adjustable cable, or it’s out of adjustment range(?).
Steeda is your best bet for the quadrant & BBK for the adjuster, SR makes some nice parts for the money. (Below).
I’m not sure why you’re having issues with Ford’s TOB’s, aftermarket bearings are the ones that don’t usually last long, worst being Exedy’s.
It’s likely as you’re thinking, just adjustment. A squeaky TOB is irritating as hell, hope that it stifles it once & for all.
Hope you and your family are maintaining well through this Covid thing, best of luck there!
Best!
-John
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BBK Mustang Adjustable Clutch Cable, Quadrant and Firewall Adjuster Kit 16095 (96-04 Mustang) - Free Shipping
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Thanks for all the input! So I got the steeda adjustable cable, quadrant and firewall adjuster and have them all installed. Now when i put slight pressure on the pressure plate fingers with the Throw out bearing I get a really bad vibration until I add more pressure. But then the clutch pedal catches all the way at the top, and sometimes it feels like the clutch slips a little. Any ideas? Not sure what the vibration is now coming from.
Catching all the way at the top can be caused by 2 things. Either too much preload which is most probably the issue, or if it's steedas short throw quadrant then that's normal. Because you said it feels like it's slipping I would say too much preload. As for the vibration, I'm not sure but I'd guess that from having too much preload, the tob cant self center itself. Crawl underneath the car and remove the clutch cover on the tranny, tighten the cable until the tob makes contact with the fingers, then get it a smidge tighter and that should be properly set. Hope this helps!
08GT500
5 Year Member
Hi,
Danny is correct. About a dime’s width of preload is pretty close. I’m guessing you’re also partially within the break-in curve of the new clutch regarding the vibration, which hinges on the install, part Mfg’s used.
Some clutch break-in’s are as smooth as glass, others are a little bumpy. (Should be really no difference noted with a proper install-good parts, aside from the clutch biting a bit more aggressively yet predictable after some miles of normal driving are accumulated.). So, take it easy on it for around 400-500 miles, you’ll feel the change. Best way to explain the quadrant..
Your quadrant angles are setup kinda’ like a compound bow, lots of force is transmitted to the clutch fork with light pedal effort- trade off being long pedal travel distance, then it flips to increased pedal resistance, short pedal travel.
So you need to find which you prefer, keep adjusting that preload about the width of a dime as you get closer with pedal effort & engagement/disengagement to where you’re happy, while remembering to make sure to never hyperextend the clutch, e.g.: Disengaging & going too far past that point by adjustment, it can stick disengaged if this occurs, or worse- bend the pressure plate fingers. It needs only to disengage fully, nothing more. No worries, just be aware is all.
With your stock setup, you were pretty restricted to what the stock cable and quadrant gave you for adjustment, (..Nil),
and the preload auto-adjusted via the stock pawl. They (stock self adjusters) worked well, just became worn out from the years.
The TOB and the pressure plate fingers
contact (preload) you now manually adjust.
Now, you’ve a wide range of adjustment available. You should have (2) spots on the quadrant in which you can use for pedal effort and stroke, the firewall adjuster to take up cable slack, and an adjustable cable for slack & final tweaking.
So, this is where you adjust the clutch to where you explore the adjustment ranges, from one end to the other so the clutch grabs where you want it to. It’s really experimenting & getting it to where you like the feel of it.
Might take a little time, but you’ll nail it.
Any other questions, please post them.
Good luck.
John
Danny is correct. About a dime’s width of preload is pretty close. I’m guessing you’re also partially within the break-in curve of the new clutch regarding the vibration, which hinges on the install, part Mfg’s used.
Some clutch break-in’s are as smooth as glass, others are a little bumpy. (Should be really no difference noted with a proper install-good parts, aside from the clutch biting a bit more aggressively yet predictable after some miles of normal driving are accumulated.). So, take it easy on it for around 400-500 miles, you’ll feel the change. Best way to explain the quadrant..
Your quadrant angles are setup kinda’ like a compound bow, lots of force is transmitted to the clutch fork with light pedal effort- trade off being long pedal travel distance, then it flips to increased pedal resistance, short pedal travel.
So you need to find which you prefer, keep adjusting that preload about the width of a dime as you get closer with pedal effort & engagement/disengagement to where you’re happy, while remembering to make sure to never hyperextend the clutch, e.g.: Disengaging & going too far past that point by adjustment, it can stick disengaged if this occurs, or worse- bend the pressure plate fingers. It needs only to disengage fully, nothing more. No worries, just be aware is all.
With your stock setup, you were pretty restricted to what the stock cable and quadrant gave you for adjustment, (..Nil),
and the preload auto-adjusted via the stock pawl. They (stock self adjusters) worked well, just became worn out from the years.
The TOB and the pressure plate fingers
contact (preload) you now manually adjust.
Now, you’ve a wide range of adjustment available. You should have (2) spots on the quadrant in which you can use for pedal effort and stroke, the firewall adjuster to take up cable slack, and an adjustable cable for slack & final tweaking.
So, this is where you adjust the clutch to where you explore the adjustment ranges, from one end to the other so the clutch grabs where you want it to. It’s really experimenting & getting it to where you like the feel of it.
Might take a little time, but you’ll nail it.
Any other questions, please post them.
Good luck.
John
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