Hard Starting: Looking for possile leads...

I think everyone agrees that points are old school and there are better options out there but in this case, he didn't have a problem until he rebuilt the carb.
LB

Before making suggestions, you need to go back and reread and comprehend what he posted in the start of this thread, The problem started BEFORE he rebuilt the carb.:nono: Not afterward. It was also after having the radiator leak puke stuff all over the distributor.
 
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...........Definitely start with the choke. As stated above, always go back to the last thing you checked. By forcing the choke to stay open, you are taking the choke out of the equation. Closed choke is only forcing more fuel into the engine and getting the plugs wet. Once that happens, it will never start. Same thing goes for spraying starting fluid down the carb. You propped open the choke but flooded it with a different method. If it wasn't getting fuel at all, this would have fired it up but in your case, you are getting too much fuel and this just amplifies the effect.

Oh and like JD said, don't worry about the adjstment screws right now as long as it is running fine once it does start......

Let us know how it goes.

LB

Todd should just do both suggestions and get that Stang back on the road were it belongs:nice: New points, condenser and unhook the choke, total cost about $10.00?:shrug:

When he mentioned he rebuilt the carb he said nothing about a new choke so I am assuming he's still using the old electric choke (which I think is malfunctioning) The original post said the carb was loaded pretty good with coolant over time, long enough for the choke internals to be affected I'd say, and the distributors as well. I think either can cause these symptoms and both should be ruled out first.

The original post claims it hard started after turning over for a time then rough idle to eventually smoothing out, that tells me it was flooded but managed a start.
Think we all ran out of gas as kids runnin these cars and pour a 1/4 cup down the carb to reprime pump, car would start with that symptom, hard start to rough running to smoothing out as the extra fuel burned up.

Hopefully he'll take these two suggestions first and it should solve his problem, then either replace the elec. choke with new or go with a manual setup once the trouble shootings done.

Edit: If these two suggestions don't solve the problem, I'm stepping back and punt the question off to the next Stanger that might have an answer:rlaugh:
 
OK....an update from my very frustrating no-start saga.

Previously on "Hard Starting"....

Last weekend I hopped in my car after a couple days of no-starts and it started right up first time. So, after concluding that the engine was getting flooded, I decided to release the electric choke all together leaving the choke open at all times. Ironically, and in retrospect unsurprisingly, this is how the electric choke was set from the very beginning. It never closed. It may have been like that since I bought the car in 2003. In any case, although the mustang had been running well all those years, it seems odd that my choke was never in play. Granted, I live in California and whoever disengaged that choke may have assumed it would never get cold enough to matter. I dunno.

So, the original problem was stalling in the mornings until after ten minutes or so of being warmed up. When I saw the choke was not in use, naturally I figured I found a clear solution. The choke itself actually works fine. When the engine warms, the choke releases. I suppose I should have been smarter about it and considered that the car had been running fine before, even with the choke always open, but I probably convinced myself engading the choke would do the trick. It seemed to, for a few weeks at least until I had problems starting the engine at all for the first time ever.

I may have gone right back to the choke to see if this was a factor, but it just so happens that I also had the problem of a leaking radiator which wreaked havok on my air filter/carb. Boy was it black and messy. I remember fuel not coming out of one of my carb accelerator nozzles, so I was convinced that I clogged parts of my carb with crud and so I rebuilt the carb. I was very meticulous. It took a whole weekend and it was, indeed, pretty dirty inside. On a hobby level, I always wanted to rebuild a carb to see exactly how they work. By the way, this is a pretty cool book if anyone else is doing it for the first time: "How to Rebuild and Modify Carter/Edelbrock Carburetors".

Where am I? Oh yeah...so after doing all that I still had problems starting the car and after a couple weeks of troubleshooting I decided to post to this forum for ideas.

Some suggested the distributor, some the choke. I was banking on the choke because that's what I had been futzing with. As stated earlier, I disengaged the electric choke all together leaving the choke always open. The car has been starting up fine all week. It's been running fine with no stalling at all. It even rained a couple days this week (no garage). BUT!!!!! I went out to drive it last night, Saturday, about 9pm and it would not start. Just cranking no firing. Dammit! The last time I drove it was Friday night. It was about 55 and little damp out last night, but it had actually been a bit worse during the week.

Today, I decided to give it another go. It was about noon today, sunny. It started up immediately without hesitation.

So, I think I am going to take D.Hearne's advice and switch to an electronic system. I'm going to buy and install a pertronix ignitor conversion. I'll let you know how it goes!
 
Well, I feel like a moron. The dist has already been converted to a pertronix ignitor. I just didn't know what I was looking at before. Damn.

Why on earth did my engine not start last night, but start right up first try today? With the electronic distributor the dampness shouldn't really be an issue, right? What's the difference between last night and today? Boy is this frustrating.
 
It could have a problem in the ignition switch, check the switch, the old stuff doesn't last forever, yours wouldn't be the first I've seen with the same problem. As for the damp, it shouldn't bother it with the Pertronix, I've never noticed it on mine and I've run both the Ignitor I & II and Crane's XR-1
 
IMHO, D.Hearne was on the right track; just looking in the wrong place. Something was wet all right......

D. Youre talking about "....steam from the coolant leak..." . Even we desert dwellers know steam rises.
Inside the distributer, above the points/condensor/Pertronix; what are those metal things that the plug wires connect to from the outside of the cap? When the rotor passes one of those metal contacts coil voltage arcs over to each of them in turn and onto the corecct plug in the firing sequence; unless there's a lower resistance path to ground (like maybe provided by ethylene glycol contaminated water/steam).

Hasn't everybody run into this problem after a radiator/heater hose pops???? :scratch:
 
Let us know how it turns out.

As far as the inside of the cap getting wet/condensation, yes, I've had it happen but more times than not, it causes the engine to miss because it is allowing the spark jump to different terminals. It would not hurt to go ahead and spray the inside of the cap with some WD40 and wipe it dry.....that will displace any water in there.......

LB
 
If the last 3 suggestions here don't work out, which it's about time they did as you paid your dues in frustration now, you've got to start at square one again.

Concentrate on what the symptoms are and what other possibilities could cause this, start by tracing and looking over with a fine tooth comb all your wiring and connections for your ignition system. Pull any ignition system plugs apart and make sure their dry, not just plug wires but any connected wires.

Run the car as well in the dark and open the hood, look around for anything arcing
or visibly shorting out to some degree. In daylight while engine running move and wiggle wires around to see if it misfires etc... . Personally I'm out of suggestions but would like to know what the cause was if and when you find out. Good luck:nice:
 
Grrrr...
New update. Car did not start this morning. It was a little cool and damp outside. Still don't know if weather is a factor, but it may be. Seems like it's starting up every other time I try it. When it starts, it starts right up. When it doesn't, it doesn't misfire or hesitate, stall out -just cranking the engine and no firing at all. My choke is permanently open now and it still hasn't seemed to fix the problem. Now that I'm not even choking the intake, I can't see how I could be flooding my engine. What's probably been happening is that something else is causing my no-start and as a result I end up with flooding because of repeated tries. After a couple tries, I sprayed a bit of started fluid again this morning to no effect.

I have actually cleaned the inside of the distributor cap a couple of times. Any residue from the radiator fiasco should be long gone.

D.Hearne, could it really be the ignition switch? If so , wouldn't that mean no starter motor, too?

Could an ignition coil go bad or be intermittent?

This is still a mystery. As JDS68Stang suggested, I think I have to start from square one now. The choke and radiator problems may have been red herrings. I guess I need to evaluate everything in more detail. Of course, the fact that this problem is intermittent is a huge challenge as far as diagnotics.
 
Get a peice of wire long enough to go from the battery positive post to the Coil Positive terminal. Put an aligator clip on each end. When it cranks and doesn't fire, clip your test wire on. If it fires, you now know it's the Ignition switch or resistor wire.
 
Grrrr...
New update. Car did not start this morning. It was a little cool and damp outside. Still don't know if weather is a factor, but it may be. Seems like it's starting up every other time I try it. When it starts, it starts right up. When it doesn't, it doesn't misfire or hesitate, stall out -just cranking the engine and no firing at all. My choke is permanently open now and it still hasn't seemed to fix the problem. Now that I'm not even choking the intake, I can't see how I could be flooding my engine. What's probably been happening is that something else is causing my no-start and as a result I end up with flooding because of repeated tries. After a couple tries, I sprayed a bit of started fluid again this morning to no effect.

I have actually cleaned the inside of the distributor cap a couple of times. Any residue from the radiator fiasco should be long gone.

D.Hearne, could it really be the ignition switch? If so , wouldn't that mean no starter motor, too?

Could an ignition coil go bad or be intermittent?

This is still a mystery. As JDS68Stang suggested, I think I have to start from square one now. The choke and radiator problems may have been red herrings. I guess I need to evaluate everything in more detail. Of course, the fact that this problem is intermittent is a huge challenge as far as diagnotics.

I've run across this before, fire goes to the starter, but none to the ignition and/or the alternator to energize it. Old wiring and switches do stranger things than that too.:shrug: