HCI + SC

[DRock9]

With my new job I have the oppurtunity to get parts at a real nice price, so it has opened some doors and I am going to get HCI first and then when I have the cash get a SC. I can't seem to find an EFI Top End kit from Edelbrock, do they even make one? And the only other two kits I can find are from Trickflow and Ford.
Are there any other kits out there that I can buy with everything I need?

I want to have about 400-450 HP in the end, I plan on running 8-10lbs of boost and I have a wet kit available if I need one to get to that range but I would like to not use it if possible. I read that you can go with a mild HCI kit + a SC and get to that power range so I would like to find out how much boost and with what kit I can do it with. Ill do some more research but if i HAVE to put together my own kit, i guess I will.

 

[Jason 302]

Holley also has a kit you can get, usually runs around $2200. Comes with intake, heads, cam, and I believe timing chain and a few other small things. The Holley intake is a great intake for boost. H/C/I + supercharger will be capable of well over 400hp, you will probably see over that just to the wheels. Only problem I see with the holley kit is the cam won't be optimum for boost, generally a cam designed for boost will have a wider LSA than one designed for N/A power.

 

[thumper460]

DOOOooooo....IT!! 450 WHP is cake with ported E7s or gt40s and the FMS E cam!!! add more get more!! Cool??

Just me..............................................

Thumper

 

[90mustangGT]

HCI + SC = Split block. If your don't split the stock block, then you didn't make good power for that combo.

 

[Jason 302]

I have seen 5.0 blocks hold 450-500rwhp for years and years, granted a fresh rebuild and some ARP hardware.

Detonation or too much RPM = split block

 

[DRock9]

Thanks a lot for the replies! I think I will get the Holley kit then toss the cam for a new one.

One more question though, my friend said that if I put HCI + SC on a 120,000 mile engine that I am looking to blow headgaskets. He said that it is because the seal between the cylinder head and the block might not be good because the block may have warped during its life, I figured that with an alluminum head it would help form to the shape of the block IF it was warped at all.

This seems a little strange to me, so I am asking to see if it is true or not.

Thank you!

 

[304billet]

Holley heads suck. Just get the TFS Track heat heads, TFS stage 2 cam and track heat intake. This will fit with stock 302 pistons but u may have to degree the cam to get it to clear P/V.

 

[ninety15.0]

i do not agree with 304billet. I dont think the track heat HCI is the best idea if he wants to supercharge it as well. Like many other people have hinted at...a wild HCI package and a blower are a recipe for disaster without a built bottom end, supports, and ARP hardware. If he isnt going to rebuild the bottom end then he should just go with the street heat TFS package and a vortech S trim....its a tried and true combo that easily puts people over the 400rwhp mark. With a nice conservative tune this could be an excellent package that wont tear his block apart. Theres nothing worse than spending thousands on a top end setup and blower to just split the block right away!!! without doing it right from the bottom up...you would be best off just keeping it to a mild HCI and a 6 or 9 pound supercharger.

 

[DRock9]

The supercharger will be a V-1 SC-Trim with a 8-10lb pulley, and I need to keep the top-end kit to either a Holley or Edelbrock because I just found out that I cant get a deal on the Trickflow kit...and I can get the Holley/Edel kit for 30%-40% off.
The supercharger needs to be a Vortech too for the same reasons, I wish I could get a Novi 1000.

I want the highest HP without any other supporting mods done to the engine, besides stuff like TB/MAF/Injectors.

But has anyone ever heard of what I stated above in my previous post?

Thank you!

 

[304billet]

go with the eddy top end kit then. performer heads, RPM ll intake and their cam. go with stud mount rockers, preferably 7/16".

 

[Jason 302]

Anytime something goes through that many heat cycles, it has a chance to warp. When you get your motor apart, you should take a straight edge across the top of of your block (called the deck). I'm having a hard time locating the allowed tolerances, but Haynes lists the cylinder heads limit as "0.003 in (in any 6 inches)/0.006 overall", so that might be something to go by. If there is question whether or not your block needs to be decked, I wouldn't be bolting new heads on especially with boost as you'll have more money in blown head gaskets than to just remove the motor and freshen it up.

 

[ninety15.0]

I agree with jason302...gaskets and all the supporting crap for a headgasket swap is not cheap. Hone, Re-ring, and re-bearing the motor and you will be much happier with the results. You said it yourself you have a 125k+ mile motor in there...while you are spending a couple g's on HCI and a supercharger, you might as well spend the extra 500 to freshen up the bottom end. cheap insurance....

 

[DRock9]

Where can I get a tool to make sure the deck is within tolerance?

And I thought it was a lot more than $500 to rebuild the bottom end...don't you need to pull the motor to do that?

Thank you!

 

[Mike92GT]

A decent quality straight edge and a feeler guage will suffice for checking your block. Summit Racing sells this one.

http://www.proformparts.com/mistore...&hdwt=31101&loc=101&dealer=&company_id=100719

 

[Mike92GT]

A very basic rebuild could be done for about $500, and yes, the motor would have to be pulled. But with 120k miles, you would probably need some machine work done. That means down time while it's out at the machine shop. It would most likely be bored .030 over, which means new pistons and more $. It's usually easier and faster to just buy a new shortblock, but then you're looking at at least $1500 or so, not including all the added misc parts you would need. It would probably be easier to put the HCI on your block and let it ride. If it doesn't last then you cross that bridge when you come to it. Just my .02.

 

[DRock9]

Thanks for all your help!

I am going to toss around some options.

 

[ninety15.0]

How about this...before you rip into the motor for the HCI swap do a compression and leak-down test to gain a good understanding of the condition of the bottom end. Then when you take the heads off for the HCI swap check the condition of the cylinder walls and block deck. if the cylinder walls dont have too significant of a lip above the top ring then you will probly be ok with a hone and re-ring rebuild....quite cheap but yes you will need to pull the motor. If the cylinder walls have a big ridge in them or the compression results arent too good...then you are going to need to look into boring it 0.030" and buying new pistons and completing a much more expensive rebuild. If the block deck isnt square your going to need that machined aswell. There are a lot of people that just slap a top end kit on and run it...but they generally dont last too long. You gotta pay to play and its easier to do it right the first time...good luck man

 

[Kevins89notch5.0]

My mild edelbrock heads, crane 2030 cam, edelbrock intake, 30lb injectors(with fmu), and a S-Trim(3.33 upper, 8 lower) putting out about 14psi put down 442 at the wheel, but that was ungodly off the chart rich, and with a factory(yes, 1989) clutch that was slipping. Now with 42s, and a built clutch with a tremec 600 behind it, I'm clearly in block splitting range. I'm going to get it tuned, and make sure its nice and rich, and not more than 475 at the wheel.

 

[DRock9]

There is no way I am doing anything to the bottom end that requires pulling the motor or a significant ammount of time. I can get the top end kit for about $1500 and the SC for about $1100 but it seems like from what everyone is saying it would be a bad idea to put them both on unless I check the clearances on my deck. I dont want to have to rip BOTH heads off and check to see if they are within the specs just to see if I can put on a HCI kit...and then have to do it all over again once I get it.

I am considering going a new route, some type of stroker short block(306/330/347...maybe 351?) and then building the motor in my garage with HCI then swapping it out. This way I have a brand new motor ready to handle anything I can throw at it, but it will be quite a few more $$$.

I am going to be searcing the want ads for someone who is selling a new short block and if it is cheap enough I will pick it up, hopefully I can get lucky but that seems to be my only option at the moment. That way I can atleast step my nitrous shot up to a 150 on the new motor and have really good power.

There was a guy on here selling a 306, i THINK, with no heads/intake but everything else...he got in an accident and broke his neck or something I forget his name but if anyone knows who I am talking about let me know!

Thanks for all your help once again!

 

[Jason 302]

That is a really good idea. That's how I did mine, I bought a junk motor and rebuilt it. Once it was finished, all I had to do was swap em out. Just remember stock parts have their limitations. Once you start talking H/C/I, boost, AND nitrous you're starting to talk about dart blocks and forged rotating assemblies. And if you can afford it, go 351. When I look at everything that I have bought for my 302, I could of bought for a 351, not of spent much more money, and be making A LOT more power (i.e 393/408 stroker).