Header removal...aluminum threads...

Insane3D · Apr 30, 2005

I'm going to be removing old BBK headers tomorrow to install some FRPP ones, and I'm concerned the shop that put them on when they did the heads didn't use anti-sieze. The bolts in there now are the Stage 8 units without the clips/locks, and I've got GT40 X305 aluminum heads. The bolts have been in there for a year, maybe two tops.

I want to be super careful taking them out so I don't damage the threads. Is there anything I can do to minimize the risk? I thought about PB Blaster/WD-40, but my guess is it would never make it into the threads on the head. I'm hoping the combination of them only being in there a couple years at most, and the Stage 8's being a nicer corrosion resistant bolt, I will be ok?

Any tips/experiences? I'll probably just be using a Craftsman box wrench to take them out...

70lightning · Apr 30, 2005

All I can say is you can never use enough lube on things, spray em down let it sit and hit them again.
Good luck.

Insane3D · Apr 30, 2005

70lightning said:
All I can say is you can never use enough lube on things, spray em down let it sit and hit them again.
Good luck.

You think WD-40 will soak in to those threads?

70lightning · Apr 30, 2005

Well I would spray it on there, and then try one out see how it moves, if it comes out a little spray some more on it and tighten it back in a little then back it out again.
really you wont know untill you try them.

Insane3D · Apr 30, 2005

Thanks for the info...I'll try that.

So, worse case scenario, and some threads are screwed, what's the way to fix that?

vristang · Apr 30, 2005

Insane3D said:
Thanks for the info...I'll try that.

So, worse case scenario, and some threads are screwed, what's the way to fix that?

Heli-coil is the best bet.

You can do it yourself or most machine shops will do it relatively cheap.

Insane3D · Apr 30, 2005

vristang said:
Heli-coil is the best bet.

You can do it yourself or most machine shops will do it relatively cheap.

Any way this can be done without taking the heads off? This is my only car...daily driver.

TheUser · Apr 30, 2005

I wouldn't worry about that until/if you cross that bridge; I'm not sure if the stage 8's are stainless, but I don't think mine have any rust on them. I'd say just play it safe, go easy on them and hope for the best. There are little things in the end where you can use a torx bit if I remember correctly, so you might find that helpful. Another thing is that they aren't torqued down a whole lot, so that should help things.

I don't think you could heli-coil the header bolt holes in the heads with the heads on the car simply because there isn't enough room to get a drill down in there and drill an accurate hole. WD 40 probably wouldn't hurt; certainly would be worth a try.

Be sure to use Anti-sieze when you reinstall

vristang · Apr 30, 2005

TheUser said:
I wouldn't worry about that until/if you cross that bridge; I'm not sure if the stage 8's are stainless, but I don't think mine have any rust on them. I'd say just play it safe, go easy on them and hope for the best. There are little things in the end where you can use a torx bit if I remember correctly, so you might find that helpful. Another thing is that they aren't torqued down a whole lot, so that should help things.

I don't think you could heli-coil the header bolt holes in the heads with the heads on the car simply because there isn't enough room to get a drill down in there and drill an accurate hole. WD 40 probably wouldn't hurt; certainly would be worth a try.

Be sure to use Anti-sieze when you reinstall

What he said

Insane3D · Apr 30, 2005

Well, I just went outside and I'm feeling a bit worried now. It's raining today, so I'mgoing to have to wait till tomorrow. The Stage 8 bolts are all rusted pretty bad on the heads. I took a box wrench out with me and I was able to break a few loose, but most are super tight and I'm afraid to pull on them. I guess I'll shoot some WD-40 on them and hope for the best, but I'm thinking I may be screwed.

I should add I drive the car year round in New England, so it's exposed to a lot of salt...

TheUser · Apr 30, 2005

Insane3D said:
Well, I just went outside and I'm feeling a bit worried now. It's raining today, so I'mgoing to have to wait till tomorrow. The Stage 8 bolts are all rusted pretty bad on the heads. I took a box wrench out with me and I was able to break a few loose, but most are super tight and I'm afraid to pull on them. I guess I'll shoot some WD-40 on them and hope for the best, but I'm thinking I may be screwed.

I should add I drive the car year round in New England, so it's exposed to a lot of salt...

that does suck. What sucks more is that a moron shop put the header bolts on w/o anti-sieze

yeah, soak them w/ some WD-40 and you might try a breaker bar tomorrow to give you more leverage.

Maybe you could try driving the car around for a few minutes and get the heads nice and hot...that should make it easier, but you'll have to be super careful and wear some thick gloves so you don't burn yourself; I've got a nice burn scar on my forearm from headers

Insane3D · Apr 30, 2005

TheUser said:
that does suck. What sucks more is that a moron shop put the header bolts on w/o anti-sieze

yeah, soak them w/ some WD-40 and you might try a breaker bar tomorrow to give you more leverage.

Maybe you could try driving the car around for a few minutes and get the heads nice and hot...that should make it easier, but you'll have to be super careful and wear some thick gloves so you don't burn yourself; I've got a nice burn scar on my forearm from headers

Well, I didn't really really pull on them...didn't want to tear the thread out. Hopefully the sticking is more due to the heads being rusted to the POS BBK headers, than them actually being seized inside the head.

I keep hearing PB Blaster is much better stuff than WD-40...is it worth it to get some of that? Also, I really don't want to try and remove the bolts with a hot heads because the metal would be softer then right?

Also, assuming worst case scenario, say one or two holes get the threads messed, would I be able to put the new headers on well enough that I could drive the car, albeit probably with a exhaust leak at a port or two until I could assemble the parts I need? Also, what would be the best for thread repair? Heli-coil, or just drilling and tapping? Any specific part #'s?

TheUser · Apr 30, 2005

Insane3D said:
Well, I didn't really really pull on them...didn't want to tear the thread out. Hopefully the sticking is more due to the heads being rusted to the POS BBK headers, than them actually being seized inside the head.

I keep hearing PB Blaster is much better stuff than WD-40...is it worth it to get some of that? Also, I really don't want to try and remove the bolts with a hot heads because the metal would be softer then right?

Also, assuming worst case scenario, say one or two holes get the threads messed, would I be able to put the new headers on well enough that I could drive the car, albeit probably with a exhaust leak at a port or two until I could assemble the parts I need? Also, what would be the best for thread repair? Heli-coil, or just drilling and tapping? Any specific part #'s?

Well heating just causes the metal to expand and so it maybe loosen up a bit; I'm not familiar w/ the properties of aluminum, but when I've had stuck bolts, etc, it's always been recommended to me to throw a torch on it and heat it up real well. I don't think you'll have a problem stripping the threads and the bolts shouldn't break since they're stage 8.

I don't know about PB blaster Vs. WD-40; I've always used WD-40. I have read something about "super oil" or something like that which is supposed to lubricate things.

You could get a heli-coil kit for probably $20 at the auto-store that would be enough to do probably 8-10 holes. You just need to know what size thread/pitch your header bolt holes are. If you don't know, take a bolt w/ ya (if this even happens) and they'll figure out what size you need. Like I said though, there is no way you could drill those holes out with the heads on the car, so just don't mess up. I don't think you'll mess the threads up at all anyway...generally it's vibration/improper fitting bolts that I've noticed messes up threads the worst along with over-tightening....I don't think you can over-loosen The thing that came to mind would be you might break the bolt off, but since they're stage 8, that shouldn't happen.

Also, have you considered header studs? I've read some guys like to put studs in their heads and then just put the headers on w nuts over the studs so that they don't have problems w/ messing up threads in their heads. I'm not sure where they get them, however.

I'm not going to lie, I hate doing headers, but you gotta do what you gotta do

70lightning · Apr 30, 2005

PB blaster does a really good job at disolving rust.

Insane3D · Apr 30, 2005

TheUser -

Well, as for bolts, I've got some brand spankin new 12 point stainless ARP header bolts, along with a big brush cap type bottle of 2000F copper anti-sieze. I looked at the studs, and they are nice, but the ARP stainless ones are like $100/set. That's $75 more than the normal ARP stainless 12-points cost me...

70lightning -

Thanks, maybe I'll take a ride up tomorrow to the local Napa and see if they havesome PB Blaster. I was actually wondering if it would penetrate into the head any better than WD...

Thanks guys...

Insane3D · May 1, 2005

Well, I went out there today after the rain stopped, and the WD-40 seemed to do the trick. It seems the tightness of them was the bolt head rusting to the header, and they all came out nice and loose on the passenger side today. I undid them all abut halfway, and put them back in until I can do the exhaust.

The rear one on the drivers side was coming out tight though, porbably due to the non one piece flange POS BBK's putting pressure on the bolt. I undid it about 1/4 of the way until some threads were exposed, then sprayed some WD-40 in the threads and tightened it back up. The fact that it went back in and snugged back up leads me to believe the threads are ok. A few heating and cooling cycles with the WD in the threads should help alot.

So, hopefully all is well...

Thanks again guys...

70lightning · May 1, 2005

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