Engine HELP - 351W Based Build Under Stock Hood

[thinkfaster]

Alright y'all, the time has come. I'm done with the interior, exterior, suspension & brakes, and it's time for a new power plant. Progress thread to date for anyone interested:

https://stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/89-smoke-gray-coupe-build-thread.923187/

I just sold another car and have the budget to achieve my 450-500ish RWHP pump gas 351W based engine goal. I can't make up my mind on what direction to go & I've got a pile of parts that I need to do something with.

I currently have the following sitting in the shop:
-Holley Terminator X
-Complete 145k mile 93 Lightning engine w/gt40 tubular upper
-BBK 351 fox swap shorty headers
-302 turbo hot side
-SVE Radiator & contour fans
-Tremec TR3550

Original plan was to take the 93 lightning short block to a local machine shop with some nice aluminum heads, have them machine/build to 408ci N/A, assemble the long block for me (as I'm not confident in my assembly abilities outside of a stock rebuild), and stick it in the car with the TR3550 & Terminator X. After looking into the total cost of this plan, I find myself wondering if I'd be happier WITHOUT stroking it and instead supercharge the stock 351 for about the same money and achieve my goal. I may also splurge for a TKX or T-56 depending on the engine choice/cost. (3.73 rear gearing for trans gearing reference/recommendations)

I have also been pricing 408ci long blocks online from FordStrokers, Coast High, BluePrint, Prestige Motorsports, and Summit/ATK. Prices seem to range from $6,500-$13,000 depending on block/head choice & other options. Coast High & BluePrint seem to fit my needs/goals best and are very reasonably priced, all things considered.

Also looking for good KNOWN upper intake/engine mount combos to keep everything under the stock hood. The only options I know of are the Professional Products Hurricane EFI or Edelbrock Victor Jr. EFI with a fabricated aluminum 90. Is that still the best option?

This is just a fun street car for me & regardless of what I do, I will be retaining my stock hood, AC, heat, & power steering.


Thoughts? Insight? Guidance? Pro's? Con's?


Photo Cred @houston.rpm on IG

 

[AeroCoupe]

Pictures are gone but some good info on how stuff the 351W under the stock hood here:

https://www.corral.net/threads/my-351w-swap-under-the-stock-hood.1273180/

Keep your GT40 intake and send the lower to Tom Moss and have him port it. Depending on what Tom can get the GT40 intakes to flow then get a good set of heads like AFR, Twisted Wedge, etc and then dial in a camshaft (off the shelf or drop a couple hundred more for a custom grind).

My NA 331 is right at 460 rwhp so I would think you could get a NA 351W over the 550 mark pretty easy. Will take more fuel system than you have and a good exhaust.

Your other choice is to boost the 302 and call it a day.

 

[Noobz347]

If it were me, Id stuff one of Blueprint's 302 strokers in there with supercharger and call it quits.

I recently learned that they use their own [brand new 4-bolt] engine blocks.

Keep your tubular upper and get a GT-40 lower and boost the crap out it.

No muss, no fuss.

 

[thinkfaster]

Pictures are gone but some good info on how stuff the 351W under the stock hood here:

https://www.corral.net/threads/my-351w-swap-under-the-stock-hood.1273180/

Keep your GT40 intake and send the lower to Tom Moss and have him port it. Depending on what Tom can get the GT40 intakes to flow then get a good set of heads like AFR, Twisted Wedge, etc and then dial in a camshaft (off the shelf or drop a couple hundred more for a custom grind).

My NA 331 is right at 460 rwhp so I would think you could get a NA 351W over the 550 mark pretty easy. Will take more fuel system than you have and a good exhaust.

Your other choice is to boost the 302 and call it a day.

I read that thread a few times before posting this, plus a ton of others. Most seem to be at least 10+ years old, so I thought I'd ask again to see if there had been any intake advancements that I was unaware of. Really hate what Photobucket did to the forums!!

I'm done trying to make 400+hp with stock block 302's. The two variants I've previously owned (347 & SC 306) were more of a headache than they were fun for me and I want to try something different. I have never had a 351W based powerplant in a fox and think its time to give it a try.

What about the fuel system is insufficient for my goal of 450-500hp? I forgot to mention that I replaced the stock pump with a Walbro 255 a while back. Stock fuel lines should be good to nearly 600hp from what I have read?

 

[thinkfaster]

If it were me, Id stuff one of Blueprint's 302 strokers in there with supercharger and call it quits.

I recently learned that they use their own [brand new 4-bolt] engine blocks.

Keep your tubular upper and get a GT-40 lower and boost the crap out it.

No muss, no fuss.

Same comment as above with 302 based builds. I'm not opposed to low boost, especially with Holley Terminator X, but will be 351W based. I'm ok with the added cost(s) of the swap and limited intake selection to make it work.

Know anything about Blueprint's 351 based strokers? Can't find very many videos/reviews on them, especially 408ci.

 

[Noobz347]

Same comment as above with 302 based builds. I'm not opposed to low boost, especially with Holley Terminator X, but will be 351W based. I'm ok with the added cost(s) of the swap and limited intake selection to make it work.

Know anything about Blueprint's 351 based strokers? Can't find very many videos/reviews on them, especially 408ci.

Those are seasoned used blocks, if that's what you're asking.

Other than that:

Description

Description:​

• Horsepower & Torque: 450 Horsepower / 470 FT. LBS. Torque
• Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
• Aluminum Heads
• Hydraulic Roller Cam
• Steel Crank
• Forged Pistons

Block:​

• Hand-Picked Seasoned Block
• Square and Parallel Decked
• Line Honed Main Bearing Bore
• Cylinders Honed on Computer-Controlled Machine to Within .0002 Straightness and Roundness
• Cylinders are Sonic Tested for Thickness
• 4-Bolt Main
• 4.040" Bore
• 1-Piece Rear Main Seal
• Mech Fuel Pump Provision: yes

Rotating Assembly:​

• New Steel Crankshaft
• 4.000" Stroke
• Forged I-Beam 6.200" Connecting Rods
• Forged Pistons
• 28 Oz. Externally Balanced Front and Rear

Cylinder Heads:​

• BluePrint Aluminum Cylinder Heads -HP9009
• 60cc Chamber
• 2.02" Intake / 1.60" Exhaust Valves
• 190cc Intake / 65cc Exhaust Runners

Cam Specs:​

• Hydraulic Roller Cam
• .579 Intake / .579 Exhaust Lift
• 236 Intake / 248 Exhaust Duration
• @.050-114 Degree Lobe Separation

Ignition Timing:​

• 34 Degrees Total at 3500 RPM

Also Includes:​

• Front Sump Oil Pan
• Dipstick
• Timing Cover
• Valve Covers

 

[thinkfaster]

Those are seasoned used blocks, if that's what you're asking.

Yeah, I was wondering about the blocks. Site reads like they're all hyd roller conversions. I also read about a shortage a couple years ago and that they were going to start casting their own 351w blocks, not sure if that's true.

https://www.vintage-mustang.com/threads/crate-engine-351w-408.1197130/

 

[Noobz347]

Yeah, I don't know either. It's not a thing until they actually make one.

 

[89notchDude]

If it were me, Id stuff one of Blueprint's 302 strokers in there with supercharger and call it quits.

I recently learned that they use their own [brand new 4-bolt] engine blocks.

Keep your tubular upper and get a GT-40 lower and boost the crap out it.

No muss, no fuss.

This.... I was thinking of going the Blueprint 408 route also, but since they are making their own 302 blocks which are as strong as 351 blocks, I see no reason to go through the hassle of a cowl hood, heavier motor, etc.

 

[Mac131]

If you are just looking for a bit more than 400 HP, the stock 302 with an on3 turbo kit will easily get you there. You can leave the stock upper and lower intakes as well. You also can run a very mild cam so it has good street manners. Just a thought...

 

[thinkfaster]

This.... I was thinking of going the Blueprint 408 route also, but since they are making their own 302 blocks which are as strong as 351 blocks, I see no reason to go through the hassle of a cowl hood, heavier motor, etc.

Hm. I'll have to look further into the BluePrint 302 castings...

If you are just looking for a bit more than 400 HP, the stock 302 with an on3 turbo kit will easily get you there. You can leave the stock upper and lower intakes as well. You also can run a very mild cam so it has good street manners. Just a thought.

I thought about it initially, hence the turbo hot side that I already have. At this point, I've invested too much time and money in this car to make it what it is and I feel it deserves an equally nice powerplant. I cant justify spending a dime on a stock block 302 for this car.

 

[AeroCoupe]

You can absolutely run a 351W with the stock fuel pump hanger and stock lines. It may not be enough but several folks swear it will be just fine.

My experience was the opposite. I was running out of fuel because of the 5/16” feed line. We had to turn the pressure up to about 46 psi with 42 lb/hr injectors to get enough fuel.

The injectors needed to be cleaned but still flowed 37 lb/hr at 43.5 psi. I ended up running 6AN lines for the feed and return, Pro-M’s fuel pump hanger, and stock injector rails. Car runs better but I have not put it back on a dyno as I am pushing the stock block as it is.

Just be open to upgrading your fuel system. Put the motor in and get it running right. If you need more fuel then you can do it at that time. After what I went through I would not hesitate to do it during the build as I feel it’s cheap insurance.

Again others here will disagree with me and post up that the stock system is fine. I’m just going with my experiences and my T-Bird does have a very healthy 351W in it and a 5/16” line isn’t going to feel that motor.

 

[91fox427]

Alright y'all, the time has come. I'm done with the interior, exterior, suspension & brakes, and it's time for a new power plant. Progress thread to date for anyone interested:

https://stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/89-smoke-gray-coupe-build-thread.923187/

I just sold another car and have the budget to achieve my 450-500ish RWHP pump gas 351W based engine goal. I can't make up my mind on what direction to go & I've got a pile of parts that I need to do something with.

I currently have the following sitting in the shop:
-Holley Terminator X
-Complete 145k mile 93 Lightning engine w/gt40 tubular upper
-BBK 351 fox swap shorty headers
-302 turbo hot side
-SVE Radiator & contour fans
-Tremec TR3550

Original plan was to take the 93 lightning short block to a local machine shop with some nice aluminum heads, have them machine/build to 408ci N/A, assemble the long block for me (as I'm not confident in my assembly abilities outside of a stock rebuild), and stick it in the car with the TR3550 & Terminator X. After looking into the total cost of this plan, I find myself wondering if I'd be happier WITHOUT stroking it and instead supercharge the stock 351 for about the same money and achieve my goal. I may also splurge for a TKX or T-56 depending on the engine choice/cost. (3.73 rear gearing for trans gearing reference/recommendations)

I have also been pricing 408ci long blocks online from FordStrokers, Coast High, BluePrint, Prestige Motorsports, and Summit/ATK. Prices seem to range from $6,500-$13,000 depending on block/head choice & other options. Coast High & BluePrint seem to fit my needs/goals best and are very reasonably priced, all things considered.

Also looking for good KNOWN upper intake/engine mount combos to keep everything under the stock hood. The only options I know of are the Professional Products Hurricane EFI or Edelbrock Victor Jr. EFI with a fabricated aluminum 90. Is that still the best option?

This is just a fun street car for me & regardless of what I do, I will be retaining my stock hood, AC, heat, & power steering.


Thoughts? Insight? Guidance? Pro's? Con's?


Photo Cred @houston.rpm on IG

Very nice build. I went Ford Performance 351 stroker (427) short block. I actually was able to fit the Edelbrock Super Victor EFI intake under the stock hood by grinding off a few mm of the intake elbow (part number listed below). This setup fit under the stock hood (used polyurethane engine mounts).

My build:
Current Build:

Year: 1991

Make: Ford

Model: Mustang GT (hatchback)

Dyno numbers: 437 HP at tire, 447 lb/ft at tire, custom tune

Engine Block: 427 ford performance short block, part # M-6009-427F

• Engine type: 351w based small block Ford
• Displacement (cu in): 427
• Bore x stroke (in): 4.125" bore x 4.00" stroke
• Block: Boss 4-bolt main block M-6010-BOSS35195 9.5" deck height
• Piston to Deck Height: .005" below piston to deck height (nominal)
• Crankshaft: SCAT® Forged Steel: 4.000" stroke
• Connecting rods: SCAT® forged steel H beam connecting rods with floating pin and ARP® bolts

Pistons: Mahle® forged aluminum
Cylinder Heads: Ford Performance Z-head aluminum assembled cylinder head: part # FMS-M6049Z304DA

Cam: COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Retrofit D288/294, L0.555/0.576
Timing set: COMP Cams magnum double roller timing set

Rocker Arms: Scorpion Race series rocker arms 1.65 Pontiac 7/16, Part # SCC-SCP1053
Lifters: Lunati Street performance retro-fit hydraulic roller lifters

Intake: Edelbrock 351 EFI Super Victor with Edelbrock 3848 throttle body intake elbow
Throttle Body: Accufab 90 mm
Intake Pipe: Anderson power pipe

Fuel Injection: Holley HP ECU for multi-Port EFI
Fuel Injectors: Holley 66 lb/hr
Fuel Rails: Edelbrock
Fuel Pump: Holley 255 LPH in tank pump
Fuel Regulator: Holley billet fuel regulator
Distributor: MSD

Flywheel: Ford Performance SFI neutral balance flywheel, Part# M6375-D302B
Transmission: Tremec TKO 5 speed
Driveshaft: Ford Performance 3.5 inch aluminum

Axels: Moser 31-spline
Hubs: 5-lug conversion (offered through LMR)

Differential: Ford Performance 8.8 inch, 31 spline, limited Slip (MPN# M-4204-F318C used in 03-04 cobras)
3.55 gears
Gasket- LLR-F880
Lubricant: Royal Purple 75w90 Max-Gear with Friction modifier M-19546-A
Differential cover: M4033G2

Front Suspension:
Control Arms: BMR (#BMR-AA034H)
Sway bar: Maximum Motorsports MM-MMFSB1-K
Ball Joints: Steeda (#ST-5558101) (from 94-04 mustang)
Bump steer kit – (#SVE-3130AA)



Brakes:
SVE 4-disc conversion (#2300CK) (exact kit no longer offered by LMR)
Caliper (Front) – SVE 2-piston
Caliper (Rear) – SVE 1- piston
Rotors (Front) – StopTech slotted 13 inch
Rotors (Rear) – StopTech slotted 11 inch
Spindles – SN95 cobra

Alternator: 125 Amp
Radiator: Frostbite 4 core
Water Pump: Hi-flow
Fans: Electric Contour (x2)
Engine Oil: Mobile 1 Full-Synthetic 10/30
Oil Filter: Motorcraft FLA1
AC: Sanden
Air Filter: K&N racing filter
Oil Pan: Ford Performance, part # FMS-M6675DRS351
Oil Pump Pickup: Ford Performance, part # FMS-M6622DRS351
Oil Pump: Melling High Volume, Part # MEL-M83HV
Headers: BBK shorty
Pulley Set: BBK
Exhaust: MAC 3-inch full exhaust, with X-pipe, with mufflers, No cat converters.
Wheels/Tires:

• Rear - 94-04 MUSTANG ANTHRACITE DEEP 315/35/17 NITTO NT555 G2
• Front - 94-04 MUSTANG ANTHRACITE FR500 275/40/17 NITTO NT555 G2

 

[Qtrhrse23]

Yea, stock type fuel system stuff works with the 351W. The fuel rails will too, just have to lengthen at the crossover with fuel injection hose-wider engine. Fuel rails good to 525ish RWHP on boost with the 255lph intake AND inline booster pump with 42s. AND the King Cobra clutch survived my barrage of 520 lbs RWTQ on ET Streets with stock petal pressure.