headers loose alot of torque?

p01rogue · Jun 24, 2005

have a basically stock 93 gt with offroad-hpipe and 2 chamber flows.
Will I loose alot of torque by switching out stock headers too mac 1 5/8 or should i leave it alone?

giddyup306 · Jun 24, 2005

You will gain a noticable amount of torque if you go with long tubes which is what I would recomend.

88 5.0 hi perf · Jun 25, 2005

if u go with the shorties, u will loose torque, if the engine is stock.

Vipersix · Jun 25, 2005

Every motor is different but take the dyno numbers and you be the judge.

From a basically stock 5.0:

Stock: 217 hp @ 5000 rpm, 273 ft-lbs @ 3600 rpm
MAC 1 5/8" shorties: 232 hp @ 5000 rpm, 284 ft-lbs @ 3700 rpm

Little bigger engine: (couldn't find torque numbers... sorry)

Unequal Shorty: 335 hp @ 5400 rpm
Equal Shorty: 333 hp @ 5600 rpm
Long Tube: 344 hp @ 5400 rpm

stangbear427 · Jun 25, 2005

No dyno numbers, but my wifes 5.0 is bone stock under the hood, and we installed MAC 1 5/8" shorties and a Flowpath 2.5" catback. No loss in low end, and significantly more pull over 2500. She even has the lethargic 2.73 rear, and it still goes off the line hard. Still running the stock midpipe though- as soon as my pipe guy has time to install the Prochamber that's been sitting in the corner for two weeks we'll see if it loses anything.

grrrrrrr · Jun 25, 2005

You'll be fine with mac shorties look at my sig, the dyno runs were made without the chip (I don't know if thats in there) or the home ported and polished lower. so 215 and 279 to the rear tires, or roughly 15% gain from exhaust and cam... 279 x 1.15 = 320 tq... doesn't look like a loss to me.

stangbear427 · Jun 25, 2005

Swapping out the stock cam changes everything though- you couldn't do an engine mod that would affect the exhaust performance more as simply.

87TTopGT · Jun 25, 2005

Go with the headers. I couldn't believe it when I took my stock headers off and saw what a convoluted, constipated section of intestine it looked like. What a bastard compromise THAT was to make it fit in multiple vehicles.

Gotta replace or port that stock lower intake to remove the choke point eventually, the headers are definitely a prerequisite in letting the motor breathe.

vikingpower · Jun 25, 2005

buy long tubes if you can handle the pain of installing them. They sure are worth it!

p01rogue · Jun 25, 2005

update

I put the headers on and the car now feels like a dog between 2000-4000rpm.
May put the stock headers back on?

cjman15 · Jun 25, 2005

Nah, keep them on now... I'm sure you will plan on adding more mods later to build power... you will really appreciate it later on down the road, give yourself time to grow

vikingpower · Jun 25, 2005

p01rogue said:
May put the stock headers back on?

HELL NO! get some long tubes and get it over with if you really dislike the shorties

87TTopGT · Jun 25, 2005

cjman15 said:
Nah, keep them on now... I'm sure you will plan on adding more mods later to build power... you will really appreciate it later on down the road, give yourself time to grow

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Vipersix · Jun 26, 2005

I think it's rather humerous myself if you look at it in a comical fashion.

18mustangs · Jun 26, 2005

I lost torque when I put MAC equal length shorties on. When I put BBK long tubes and an o\r h-pipe I gained a lot of torque.

91mustangnick · Jun 26, 2005

i put MAC LT's on with Borla mufflers and notice a ton of torque but seems like i have no top end power???

Nick

stangbear427 · Jul 4, 2005

stangbear427 said:
No dyno numbers, but my wifes 5.0 is bone stock under the hood, and we installed MAC 1 5/8" shorties and a Flowpath 2.5" catback. No loss in low end, and significantly more pull over 2500. She even has the lethargic 2.73 rear, and it still goes off the line hard. Still running the stock midpipe though- as soon as my pipe guy has time to install the Prochamber that's been sitting in the corner for two weeks we'll see if it loses anything.

Prochamber is in. Sounds insane, feels pretty much the same on the low end, but now it keeps pulling hard right to 6,000- it used to fall on it's face after 4,000. I haven't even pulled out the air silencer yet, maybe later...

Michael Yount · Jul 4, 2005

Despite their appearance, the stock HO shorties don't hinder peak power until you get up into the 280-300 HP range. Most of the gains people refer to come from replacing the stock system downstream of the headers (especially stock cats/h-pipe, stock mufflers) with something that flows better.

My mild set up lost 3HP on the dyno when I swapped the HO headers for a set of 1 5/8th" FRPP shorties.

Long tubes probably won't add much peak power (again - for stock to mild combos) but they have the potential to add gobbs of low end torque.

So, if you're gonna go to the trouble of adding headers - long tubes are the way to go. And unless you're well up over 400+ HP, 1.5" primary won't hurt peak power, but will make even more low end/midrange power/torque than a 1 5/8" primary. People oversize headers regularly. Bigger is better mentality usually is exactly wrong when it comes to exhaust system tuning....

DW5.0L · Jul 4, 2005

Ok, but wouldn't ceramic coated shorties lower underhood heat better than the OEM's? The tubing looks as if it flows better the stock. I would love to see a few dyno sheets to confirm/deny the loss in power on a stock 5.0L. Interesting info on their HP efficency though. I don't see anything wrong with adding shorties to compliment other exhaust products to allow your 300+ HP Pony to exhale properly. You won't have clearance issues or require a new starter as with the LT's. Adding a set of unequal shorties is not a high RPM job.

Michael Yount · Jul 4, 2005

Ceramic coating on ANY header will reduce radiant heat transfer. The point is, you for mild builds (less than 300HP -- WHERE THE POSTER IS), the bigger shorties won't help at all. Long tubes WILL help the bottom end.

I believe I have both copies of my dyno runs if you really don't believe what I'm telling you happened on my car. Search the threads - you'll find many other cases of folks who didn't pick up anything on mild builds by replacing the HO headers with bigger shorties. Can't imagine why I'd mis-lead about spending all that money to brag about a loss in power. (grin)

Ambient temp. was about 45F on both runs; same dyno, same operator, different strap down session. The only changes where addition of FRPP shorties (ceramic coated), and I took my usual dino oil out and put in 5qts. of Amsoil synthetic. At peak we dropped from 225 rwHP to 222HP. There was no gain at any point in the pulls (from about 1800-5500), and the loss was greatest at peak. WHen you consider the error/variance of a normal dyno, what you can conclude is that the bigger shorties made no difference at all. As stated before, for stock/mild combos, DESPITE their appearance, the stock headers are not flow limiting.

headers loose alot of torque?

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