Headgasket?

[flyinbiya]

So, Im pretty sure I lost a headgasket on the oragne fox. I drove the thing to work today, in bumper to bumper trafic (35miles) and no issues at all. On the way home, while at a stop light I noticed the temp starting to rise. I get going, and it starts to fall so I kinda ignore it and carry on.

I get home (about 10min) from when I noticed the temp climbing, and park it. I checked everything out and the fluids are retaing their intended color.

At about 1400rpms, while holding, the car has a very noticable shake to it. If you let it idle, the temp climbs (pretty slow), and it idles with a miss.

The coolant has some white froth to it, so all in all Im guessing headgasket. My guess is that it failed and is mixing air/coolant not oil/coolant.

Its not smoking, spiting, drives great, etc. Just has the temp problem and the above mentioned...


Any thoughts?

 

[Michael Yount]

Tell us more about your air/coolant mixing theory - exactly where and how do you think this is happening?

Think for a minute about the primary ways/places a head gasket could fail. It could fail between two cylinders. The result of this would be backfiring into the intake and inability of those two cylinders to create much compression. Doesn't happen very often - I've had it happen on one car of mine. It could fail exposing the compressed charge in the cylinder to the oil return drains from head to block, or to the lifter valley. That would result in combustible mixture and/or exhaust being pumped into the crankcase. Never seen that happen. It could fail in a way where coolant is admitted to the cylinder, and where the cylinder pressure tries to pressurize the cooling system. That results usually in a lot of steam out the exhaust system, dropping coolant levels - and you can usually smell the antifreeze in the exhaust. It also usually allows coolant to get to the crankcase/oil pan making the coolant look like a mocha milkshake.

If I were in your shoes, I'd 1) pull the plugs and see if any of them look different than the others. That may give you a clue which if any cylinders are particularly affected. 2) If a plug or plugs look different, I'd run cranking compression test on that cylinder and a few others that don't look affected to see how they compare. If a cylinder(s) isn't holding up on cranking compression, then a cylinder leakdown test should tell you if it's rings, valves or head gasket that is the culprit. 3) I'd turn the engine over with all the plugs out and watch to see if any coolant gets ejected from the plug holes. That's a BIG clue as which cylinder is the offending one. 4) You can pressurize the cooling system, and see if that generates cooling leaks INTO the engine. 5) Pull the codes to see if the drivability issues are being caused by something else.

Temp. increases because of a head gasket problem are usually because enough coolant gets lost that the car overheats. If you're not losing coolant, it's possible it's still a head gasket - but if so, that type of failure doesn't happen very often, and overheating usually is not a symptom.

 

[MusPuppis]

Not to hi-jack the thread.. but I need to run a compression test on one of my cylinders. #1 doesnt seem to be firing correctly and when I pulled the plug it looked like it had burnt oil on it.

To run a compression test, I just get a compression test tool from like Autozone or the like, pull the plug in the offending cylinder and hook the tool up to the cylinder, unhook the coil and crank the engine correct?

Sorry again to hijack.. =]

 

[Michael Yount]

Also hold the throttle wide open when cranking. However, that won't tell you much without testing some of the ones you think are normal too for comparison. I'd pull all eight plugs and check them all. Also makes it easier on the starter/battery when turning things over.

 

[flyinbiya]

so, to recap:

at idle only the temp climbs

at about 1400rmps it feels like it has a bad balancer

the coolant has a little froth to it

it spits NOTHING out the tailpipes

and the oil (on dipstick) looks fine

the coolant isnt dropping (at least not from what i can see)



me = stumped

 

[Michael Yount]

Perhaps your fan clutch took a dump from vibration due to a balancer that's going bad. Is the balancer wobbling or does it have any of the rubber cracked or looking like it's squeezed out from between the rings?

Temp climbing at idle usually simply means that not enough air's moving across the radiator at low speeds = fan, if all else is well. Generally, head gasket would cause worse problems as revs climb. What kind of temp gauge? If stock, they're worthless. Perhaps you've got a bad balancer and a gauge sending unit that is about to bite it.

Have you pulled codes yet?

 

[flyinbiya]

Perhaps your fan clutch took a dump from vibration due to a balancer that's going bad. Is the balancer wobbling or does it have any of the rubber cracked or looking like it's squeezed out from between the rings?

Temp climbing at idle usually simply means that not enough air's moving across the radiator at low speeds = fan, if all else is well. Generally, head gasket would cause worse problems as revs climb. What kind of temp gauge? If stock, they're worthless. Perhaps you've got a bad balancer and a gauge sending unit that is about to bite it.

Have you pulled codes yet?

no codes yet.

the balancer is a new romac

ill check the fan.

ill buy a gauge to see what is really going on.

thanks for the help.

 

[stangbro01]

check the thermostat. mine did the same thing, it may be sticking

 

[flyinbiya]

Alright, so I pulled the plugs today and this is whats up...

1-Perfect
2-Perfect
3-Oil on threaded part, the tip of the plug that looks like 'F' has a little color to it (almost like its a bit wet).
4-Oil on threaded part, the tip of the plug that looks like 'F' has a little color to it (almost like its a bit wet).

5-Perfect
6-Perfect
7-Oil on threaded part, the tip of the plug that looks like 'F' has a little color to it (almost like its a bit wet).
8-Oil on threaded part, the tip of the plug that looks like 'F' has a little color to it (almost like its a bit wet).

So, at 5 Ill be running a comp test and see how it goes...

Any more thoughts?

 

[flyinbiya]

check the thermostat. mine did the same thing, it may be sticking

this may sound dumb, but how to you 'test' and t-stat? put it in hot water or something and wait for it to pop?

 

[Michael Yount]

I prefer to use coolant from the car since that's what the t'stat operates in; and I use a thermostat so I can see when it begins to open, and at what temp it's open all the way. I always test t'stats and temp. switches before using them.

 

[flyinbiya]

tonight i noticed that teh temp reads HIGHER if my headlights are on. SO, that means i need a different gauge. i may not really have a problem at all besides the damned gague.

it now has a miss, so i bought plugs, car, rotor (horible shape)

the comp test came out great - 150 +/- 10

the coolant pressure test came out great...

so, ill do the new tune up stuff and hope for the best. i drove the car to get the new parts, and other than the slight miss at idle, it drove fine.

thanks for all the help.