Headliner question.. and an assembly line tidbit

[LXXVICOBRA]

Well! Since removal of the seatbelts for rewebbing has resulted in a near total disassembly of the interior, I am pondering the replacement of the original headliner at this time. Aside from the expected "have a pro" do it....I'm interested in hearing tips or comments from those of you that actually have installed one in a II.

By the way...this seatbelt job has dispelled any doubts I could have ever had, in regard to Ford assembly line workers using whatever was on hand when the parts supply was running low. My (white) Cobra bought new by me in '76, had never previously been disassembled (as such) for any interior work. The carpet had never been removed, nor had the rear seat. I had a pretty good laugh, when I found that the rear belt retractor covers for my black interior car (with black belts) consisted of one tan and one green! The real kicker was that ONE of the short stationary front belt units that bolts to the floor, (the piece between the seat and the console which is covered with hard plastic), had BLUE webbing! True, none of these would ever be seen when the car is totally assembled, but, I found it interesting nontheless.

 

[cobraii351]

I've done a couple of headliners. Patience! Remove the the original slowly and it should come out. Take notice to where things go. Mark the three bows so that they are in ther original positions (not that you might not have to change the holes they were placed in). On my car the front bow kept sliding back and falling down, no matter what hole I had it in. So I wired to forward to keep it in place. The new liners are real nice but they aren't made the way the original one's were. You'll see what I mean when you pull it old one out. I'm assuming you have a hatch. It's much easier if the cargo panels are out of the way, then you can get to all the edges easier. I used brush on contact cement. It worked great but it can be very messy as can the spray stuff, the choice is yours. Get the bows in place, wire the rear most bow in (you'll see) and start in the front pulling and glueing. work from the center out there usually a small notch in the middle of the new piece line it up in the center above the mirror and work out from there working back both sides evenly. Don't cut ANYTHING until you are 100% sure especally around the seams! The sewing is only locked at the very end of the stitching, if you cut the "lock" off you might unravel the whole seam. I did this by accident and almost had troubles. If you can get a box of binder clips in different sizes do it, you'll see why in the pictures. It took the better part of a day to get the last one in. Take your time and it will be well worth it!

Good luck!

Tim

 

[THE COBRAMAN]

There should be 2 small hooks at the rear bow to hold it when pulled forward. I believe 77cobraII posted a pic a short while back.

They're not bad to install, Tim said it pretty well.

Each one gets a little easier

I've seen the odd color webbing in several cars as well. I even found a mint condition aqua seatbelt trim ring under the carpet in a car with a black interior.

 

[CobraII_Andy]

Question for cobraii351

Great pics and explanation on the headliner.
I will be doing mine soon.
Where did you get the replacement, and what color is that blue?
I think Ford called it medium blue, but I don't want retailer to send
me aqua.

thanks
andy

 

[mustang2]

hey cobraII_andy, if they send you an aqua, send it my way. heck if you have anything aqua send it my way.

 

[LXXVICOBRA]

Tim,
Thanks very much, for the pics and installation instructions you provided. Together, they make for an excellent reference and also ease most of my previous concerns about attempting to do this myself. I guess the worst that can happen is that I'd have to do it twice, and since the liners are relativily cheap, it would'nt be the end of the world if it got screwed up on the first attempt.
I do know, that I much prefer doing this and all the other ensuing disassembly, cleaning and reassembly of everything else myself, than to leaving the car at the mercy of someone else who might surely do a less meticulous job overall, and one who likely has less of an awareness of the consequenses of braking something else that might be very difficult to replace in the process.

This will also be the perfect time for me to install the new quarter window mouldings and door weatherstriping that I have been holding off on doing, especially since the quarter windows must be removed for both the liner and mouldings to be installed anyway. Looks like I will be making a trip to Staples for those binder clips....I was somewhat wondering what would work best! They look made for the job.

I do have one question for you and Cobraman however, in regard to the other (forward) rods and the proper "flex" tension on them.
Am I to assume, that they are to "float" a bit in their respective posistions when the liner is pulled taught? In other words, they won't exactly or preceisly follow the exact contour of the roof and remain totally "upright" and super tight against the roof when hooked in place... but rather pivot, swivel, (or roll) a bit to a more relaxed posistion (in the holes) and then hang "free" remaining under only moderate tension, so that they will not bind with the roof when installation is complete?

 

[cobraii351]

You're welcome, and no problem I am glad to help. As for the front bows. The center bow just hangs there. It is where it is. The front bow "should" be pulled forward by the liner I believe. But my front bow just would stay I don't know if it was because of the difference in the repop liner or what. Bit I ended up using the same method as the rear is held in place to pull the front forward and keep it there. Maybe I did something wrong, I'm not sure. But it all covered up in the long run. There are 2-3 holes in each side for the bows and maybe they are to help position the bow to stay tight. In either case my front bow just wouldn't behave.

Also one thing I forgot to mention before. A second set of hands is VERY helpfull. My nieghbor helped a lot! Pull and glue, pull and glue. The very worse part of the entire mess is the curve around the hatch opening. you have to cut things carefilly to get the curve just right with no wrinkles.

I got my liner from Bernard Baumann C.A.R Distributors. Nice guy with decent prices. I believe it is medium blue but I forget exactly.

BERNARD BAUMANN
12375 New Holland St.
Holland, Michigan 49424
(616) 399-6783

Fax: (616) 399-0649


Tim

 

[74ProII]

Has anyone tried a non-stock type replacement with any sucess? I have been toying with the idea of replacing mine with a newer style like my 93.

 

[78 Mach1]

I've done a couple of headliners. Patience! Remove the the original slowly and it should come out. Take notice to where things go. Mark the three bows so that they are in ther original positions (not that you might not have to change the holes they were placed in). On my car the front bow kept sliding back and falling down, no matter what hole I had it in. So I wired to forward to keep it in place. The new liners are real nice but they aren't made the way the original one's were. You'll see what I mean when you pull it old one out. I'm assuming you have a hatch. It's much easier if the cargo panels are out of the way, then you can get to all the edges easier. I used brush on contact cement. It worked great but it can be very messy as can the spray stuff, the choice is yours. Get the bows in place, wire the rear most bow in (you'll see) and start in the front pulling and glueing. work from the center out there usually a small notch in the middle of the new piece line it up in the center above the mirror and work out from there working back both sides evenly. Don't cut ANYTHING until you are 100% sure especally around the seams! The sewing is only locked at the very end of the stitching, if you cut the "lock" off you might unravel the whole seam. I did this by accident and almost had troubles. If you can get a box of binder clips in different sizes do it, you'll see why in the pictures. It took the better part of a day to get the last one in. Take your time and it will be well worth it!

Good luck!

Tim

Hello Tim,

I know this is a super old thread, but there isn't much information in the forums for doing the headliners on a II, or even on the internet for that matter. I'm about to do the headliner in my 78 Mach 1 and that's how I stumbled onto this thread. I can't seem to get your pictures to open for me. I'm real curious how you held the front of the headliner in place while the glue dried. In your write up, you mention binder clips. I'd love to see how you used clips to hold the headliner in place near the windshield while the glue dried. If you could help me get the pictures open, or if you could send them directly to me, that would help.

Thanks

 

[LILCBRA]

Hello Tim,

I know this is a super old thread, but there isn't much information in the forums for doing the headliners on a II, or even on the internet for that matter. I'm about to do the headliner in my 78 Mach 1 and that's how I stumbled onto this thread. I can't seem to get your pictures to open for me. I'm real curious how you held the front of the headliner in place while the glue dried. In your write up, you mention binder clips. I'd love to see how you used clips to hold the headliner in place near the windshield while the glue dried. If you could help me get the pictures open, or if you could send them directly to me, that would help.

Thanks

Welcome to Stangnet!!

He's not been online since June 2021 so he may not respond for a while. As for his pictures, they're not visible for me either. It looks like they were shared from an outside site that may or may not still be in existence. Hopefully he'll pop back in and he still has them to share for you.

 

[manicmechanic007]

LILCBRA,
Watch a video or two
You use the boston clips to hold it while you are getting it tight and on there perfectly straight etc.
Then you can just move the clips around as you readjust and repeat until the glue is drying and you are satisfied about the placement
I have only replaced a few headliners and not on a car like your M2 but they are all similar and it is way easier with the front and rear glass out
You might get some glue on the glass so you can tape it because I would not remove the glass just for the headliner either
Good luck

 

[78 Mach1]

Thank you so much for the replies. I've watched so many videos on headliner replacements. Unfortunately, I have not found one for the Mustang II specific. The early mustangs have a pinch seem around the windows that you glue too and use windlace to hold the headliner in place while it dries. Early Chevies have a tack board that you staple the headliner in place with. The Mustang II has none of that. Just a big fat bulge that the headliner glues to. I'm guessing he used the large clips and secured the liner temporarily to that bulge using the clips while the glue dries. We do have the pinch seem around the hatch opening, so that's seems easy enough. I'll give it a try and hope for the best.

Up to this point, I have done this rebuild on my own with zero help. But I decided it was time to join a forum and hopefully get some help with these less obvious tasks. I appreciate any advice anyone who has done this can provide.

I'm also trying to determine the right adhesive. From my research, the Weldwood Landau Top & Trim Contact Cement is what most recommend. I'm not necessarily comfortable spraying it on though, so I may buy a gallon and just brush it on.

 

[2Blue2]

Weldwood contact cement and brushing is a good approach.
With the right amount of tack time it well stay where you put it.

 

[78 Mach1]

Weldwood contact cement and brushing is a good approach.
With the right amount of tack time it well stay where you put it.

 

[78 Mach1]

Thank you for the adhesive clarification. I’ll get the Weldwoood top and trim adhesive tomorrow. Still waiting for the headliner to arrive. As soon as it does, I’m ready to tackle this project. I’ll post how it went.

 

[78 Mach1]

Thank you for the adhesive clarification. I’ll get the Weldwoood top and trim adhesive tomorrow. Still waiting for the headliner to arrive. As soon as it does, I’m ready to tackle this project. I’ll post how it went.

While I wait for the headliner to arrive, does anyone know if I have to install the quarter windows before or after the headliner? This may seem like an odd question, but I took this car apart 15 years ago. I just now pulled all my parts out of storage and am reassembling it. I have forgotten what order something’s go back together.

Also can anyone provide me some help or pictures of how the quarter windows go back together on a hatchback II? You would think it was simple. But the rubber seal has really got me confused as to if it straddles the sheet metal like an old school windshield rubber seal, or if it just screws in and seals from the inside. Again, I couldn’t find any videos on line of anyone installing these on a II.

 

[LILCBRA]

Are they fixed or pop-out windows? I have pop-outs and no headliner, I can definitely get you some pics of how that's mounted. I'm pretty sure you can install the headliner with them in or out in either case.

 

[78 Mach1]

Are they fixed or pop-out windows? I have pop-outs and no headliner, I can definitely get you some pics of how that's mounted. I'm pretty sure you can install the headliner with them in or out in either case.

Fixed. Sorry I didn’t even think to include that information. I believe the installation would be very similar. Probably just a different seal design for the glass. If you could get me pictures, that should help. I’m mainly confused as to how the seal actually seals to the body. The more I look at it, the more I think it just sets flush with the inside metal. Because I looked at the trim piece and it wraps around from the outside and screws to the inside. With that being the case. I don’t understand how the seal could straddle the metal like most cars do. But at the same time, I’m confused how we would get a water proof seal with it just flush against the inside quarter panel opening.

 

[LILCBRA]

I'll try to remember when I get home from work, but if I don't someone might be able to step in. I've gotta get stuff ready for a trip we're taking to Cali, we fly out first thing in the morning so we'll have to be up and ready to leave the house buttcrack early - about 3am - so if I forget that's why. BUT, if memory serves, the seal is around the frame and it does just seal to the inside of the quarter panel.

For reference, and I'm sure you're probably already aware, here's a random pic of some pop-out windows from the interweb. You can see the seal mounted to the frame with the mounting locations around the perimeter. If memory serves, there's 2 screws on the front at the B pillar, one at the rear "corner" and it looks like another along the bottom of the frame. My car had fixed windows and they were almost interchangeable. The leading flange contacted the upper seat belt mounting boss and I had to trim the flange.

Here's a fixed window from Ebay with some paint overspray. It looks to have a few mounting flanges at the top as well - which would make sense.

Hopefully this all will help a little. Like I said, I'll try to remember to get a couple pics when I get home later.

Edit: I also believe you mount the lower trim BEFORE you install the window, so the seal actually seals against the trim - but it's been quite a long time since I've had mine out - I could be wrong.....

 

[LILCBRA]

I remembered!