Heads and Gaskets

[Route666]

Ok, cleveland heads will bolt onto 302 blocks right?

What bore should gaskets have? For instance, can a 4.000" bore 351 uses a 4.060" gasket?

Also, can copper gaskets be run without the o-ring wire? I'm talking about in a situation where copper gaskets aren't warranted for their extreme pressure sealing ability.

Thanks

 

[D.Hearne]

Cleveland heads will bolt onto 302 blocks , yes. But there's more to it than that. First you have to seal off the coolant return passages on the bottom side of the corners. Then open up a return passage on the intake side. Yes you could use copper gaskets. I think the bore size for the gasket you'll need to go with is 4.1, most 4" bore motors use this size.

 

[D.Hearne]

Cleveland heads will bolt onto 302 blocks , yes. But there's more to it than that. First you have to seal off the coolant return passages on the bottom side of the corners. Then open up a return passage on the intake side. Yes you could use copper gaskets. I think the bore size for the gasket you'll need to go with is 4.1, most 4" bore motors use this size.

 

[D.Hearne]

Cleveland heads will bolt onto 302 blocks , yes. But there's more to it than that. First you have to seal off the coolant return passages on the bottom side of the corners. Then open up a return passage on the intake side. Yes you could use copper gaskets. I think the bore size for the gasket you'll need to go with is 4.1, most 4" bore motors use this size.

 

[Route666]

Thanks Mr Hearne!

 

[Route666]

Hmm actually, I have more qs. Are the passages to open and close on the head?

 

[brianj5600]

Cleveland motors don't route water through the intake. The water return neck is bolted to the block instead of the intake on a windsor type engine. You have to machine the water return hole on the head gasket surface to accept a freeze plug. Then lay an intake gasket from a boss 302 on the head to locate the position of the new water return to the intake. IMO way too much work to put a head with valves and ports oversized for a 302. There are so many better choices these days that will as good or better power than 351c heads with much better velocity and torque. It can be done though. I think a boss 302 head was a retrofitted 351c when the 302 tunnel port did not work.

 

[Route666]

So you use a 302 intake on that setup I take it? As the heads are modified for the 302 water passage.

 

[64.5 GearJammer]

You'd need a special intake for this also. B&A Performance used to make them years ago....They were called Street Boss ( dual plane ) and Track Boss ( single plane ) but I'm not sure if they are still available.

 

[Route666]

Why would you need a special intake if you convert the water system on the cleveland heads to a 302 system?

 

[brianj5600]

Are you wanting to put 4v or 2v heads on a 302? 4v heads would use a boss 302 intake. 2v heads use a special intake by a company that I believe is out of business. 2v heads would end up costing enough with the special intake to make it cost prohibitive. The special intakes were cool in the mid 80's when there were no aftermarket heads, I wanted one bad, but it was complicated and expensive. When aftermarket heads came out it put B&A Ford Performance out of business.

 

[D.Hearne]

The boss 302 heads had windsor type coolant routing, instead of a Cleveland's routing. The coolant from the Cleveland is routed from the waterpump, through the block to the rear, then up into the heads, it then returns back to the block via a passage in the front top corners of the deck face ( about a 1" square passage) it then exits the block in front of the intake. The Windsor's coolant is routed the same way , except the coolant runs from the heads, into the front of the intake, and then exits from the front of the intake. Your being in the land down under,may put you at a disadvantage in the workings of the 69-70 Boss 302 motor. This was a cleveland headed windsor style block, with a unique intake to work with the cleveland ports. It looks similar to a std 302 intake, except for the ports and bolt pattern ( intake to head bolts) . There was an aftermarket company here in the states that made a Boss 302 style intake that worked with the Cleveland 2 bbl ported heads, that had their coolant passages modified in the manner that Brianj5600 stated earlier. Perhaps you're confsing this whole scenario with the Aussie 302 Cleveland.

 

[Route666]

Well what I would like to do, is get an aluminium 302 block from Ford Racing, use CHI heads from here, they have the water outlet in the corner machined to accept a plug already, and use an IR fuel injection setup on top of all that. http://www.twminduction.com/v8_kits/v8_kits.html They have cleveland manifolds as well, but it sounds like nothing is going to work properly.

I take it the cleveland head / intake interface bolt pattern is different from the windsor style? This is the problem?

 

[D.Hearne]

Well what I would like to do, is get an aluminium 302 block from Ford Racing, use CHI heads from here, they have the water outlet in the corner machined to accept a plug already, and use an IR fuel injection setup on top of all that. http://www.twminduction.com/v8_kits/v8_kits.html They have cleveland manifolds as well, but it sounds like nothing is going to work properly.

I take it the cleveland head / intake interface bolt pattern is different from the windsor style? This is the problem?

Yes, the Cleveland head to intake bolt pattern is different. Ford Racing offers single plane intakes for the combo you descibe I believe. 302 windsor style 8.2 block with C3L aluminum heads.

 

[D.Hearne]

Oh and check ebay for Boss 302 and the B&A track Boss ( we used to call them Bogus Bosses) intake. There's a couple up there now, from the same seller. If you have trouble getting what you need from up here, I'm more than willing to help you out there, I've shipped a few parts down there before.

 

[Route666]

Ahhh this is crazy. I wanted to put a DOHC mod motor in my dream machine, to make it WAYYYY out there, then I saw the intake manifold for smallblocks and fell in love with it, and the fact that the motor fits without modifying the car. Now it looks like that's the component I won't be able to have with this combo. Oh phoey.

 

[Route666]

Oh and just to clarify (I'm like a lawyer, love having things said out straight) the Yates C3L heads have Cleveland intake pattern right?

 

[D.Hearne]

Oh and just to clarify (I'm like a lawyer, love having things said out straight) the Yates C3L heads have Cleveland intake pattern right?

Won't swear by it, but yes, I think they do have the Cleveland pattern. The Ford Racing 8.2 deck intake does fit them, whichever pattern they have. Try posting your question on the 335 Cleveland forum on network54. Those guys will be able to answer your questions if I haven't.

 

[Route666]

Thanks for all the help!

I have a question now relating to the 8.2" deck height. Are 1.170" Compression Height custom pistons possible? Too short? I'd need that for a 3.25" stroke with 5.4" rods is all...

 

[D.Hearne]

If you've got the money for them, I'm sure some one's got the time to make them. Might try looking up the specs on Cleveland stroker pistons. They might be just what you're looking for.