heads/cam/intake

canesstangnitro · Feb 23, 2008

I just bought the trick flow track heat intake. I am going with the tf track heat heads and the stage 2 cam. My first question is since my car is speed density, is there anything I am going to have to do to make everything work right with it because it is not mass air. I have the kit but it is not on and I might never put it on. I was thinking about getting 30 pound injectors when I put the kit on but can anyone else think of anything I will need or any problems I might run into. Also, the track heat heads from 50resto or summit, do they come with all the gaskets I am going to need

One last thing. How hard are the cams to change on a fox body?

87foxstang · Feb 23, 2008

Well, That will be a tough combo to run on speed density mostly because of the cam...it is not very SD friendly. You may be able to get away with it if you were to get a chip burnt.

Since you have a Mass Air system, throw it on it will be much easier in the long run in terms of tuning.

If you get 30lb injectors make sure the MA is calibrated for 30lb injectors. Do not just throw them on the SD system because it will not run right.

If you have any automotive experience the cam shouldn't be to hard, but if you never touched an engine, it will be a pain.

mazroth · Feb 23, 2008

canesstangnitro said:
I just bought the trick flow track heat intake. I am going with the tf track heat heads and the stage 2 cam. My first question is since my car is speed density, is there anything I am going to have to do to make everything work right with it because it is not mass air. I have the kit but it is not on and I might never put it on. I was thinking about getting 30 pound injectors when I put the kit on but can anyone else think of anything I will need or any problems I might run into. Also, the track heat heads from 50resto or summit, do they come with all the gaskets I am going to need

One last thing. How hard are the cams to change on a fox body?

If you dont use the mass air setup, you will definitely have to have a tune, just from what I have read, no real experience with speed density. If you go with mass air, be sure the meter you have is calibrated for 30lb injectors. What meter is it? If you take the car to a reputable tuner with a dyno, put the injectors and meter on there, it can be tuned with a chip without having to match. Its best to get this tuned anyway, my pals and I put in my 306, had vp 110 in it, alot of timing, it ran really well, but I wanted to run on pump gas. When I had it on the dyno, it was lean, getting on it w/o that good fuel would have been bad. I am probably the best case scenario, but I picked up 40+hp, 50+ tq at the wheels. Most people that can tune somewhat w/o a dyno pick up around 10-20 at the wheels. The difference in driving it before and after the tune was night, and day.

Havnt personally put in a cam, but have heard it isnt to bad. Dont try it solo if no experience, get a friend to help if you can. How many miles on that motor? I would look into getting a new timing set when you put it in. Also the stock rockers will not work with the tfs heads, will need some stud mount rockers, some new pushrods as well, and gaskets. If you had bought the tfs kit, it comes with all that stuff. You can probably use the stock valve covers, but may need to do some modification to the baffle to clear the rockers. Be sure to always check piston to valve clearance.

canesstangnitro · Feb 23, 2008

the only reason I did not buy the kit is because even with the track heat kit, it does not come with the track heat heads. it comes with the twisted wedge heads and I want a little more power than that. The only other thing I can think is that I could send them to tmoss and have them ported but I would just rather get the track heat heads and bolt them on. And I just bought the track heat intake. so I added it up if you buy everything separate, it only comes out to 70 dollars more so I guess I will just do it like that so I don't have to put out 2,530 at once. if you buy everything separate it comes out to 2,600.

But yea. not much eperience with working on the motor. everything that you see done to my car on my sig, I have done. so I have learned a lot since working on my car so I am sure I can handle anything if I have the help. but any tips or tricks or anything that would help with this upgrade I would like. I found out the other day you have to go back and tighten the manifold bolts the next day to see if they get loose when the car gets hot. anything like that, I would love the help

mazroth · Feb 23, 2008

Piecing it together you can save cash where you can, and spend the little extra to make the parts better. I believe though that summit owns trickflow, they would add/delete from the package to make it what you needed. If I bought trickflow heads, I would definitely opt for the track heat ones, since they have bigger studs, and the better springs.

From your sig, you appear to be on the path for some good power. Mass air would be easier, but it can be done with speed density, you would just have to find someone who could tune the car. I have 0 experience with sd, so cant say much other than that.

What exhaust are you using? Longtubes will help out more than you think, and with no ac-ps-smog- and a elec fan, there is a ton more room under that hood to work on stuff. Im using bbk, a used pair at that and like them so far, just wish they were cleaner, but cant complain for 100 bucks.

On the rockers, you dont have to buy the trickflow ones, comp cams are good to, but just as much, thats the ones I used. I shouldve tried out scorpion rocker arms, not their cheapest ones, but the good ones, which are still cheaper than comp cam and trickflow, and I hear that they are very good rockers. Pretty sure they fit tfs heads, but heard of some rocker arms having problems on tfs heads, just may wanna pay some attention to that before spending the $.

Since the motor is rebuilt, the timing chain new, should be. Good to have a newish one in place when installing a cam, and a adjustable one at that helps.

You can probably get by using the stock valve covers if you like, just need to clearance them some by removing the baffles for rocker clearance, most are easily cleaned up and easy to paint.

From the first post, the heads will not come with the gaskets you need. You will need to buy some. I used the common fel pro .39 inch thick head gasket for mine.

How you like your PA starter? Im gonna need a new one soon, and looking for a mini.

canesstangnitro · Feb 24, 2008

I am running mac exhaust on it. It was on the car when I got it. And an offroad h pipe. I saw it when I was under there. Don't know what brand the h pipe is but I know that if I go with mac longtubes, I have to make sure that h pipe is mac or it will not fit. The only reason I have not bought headers is because I think I will need the 1 3/8 when I go supercharger or turbo. I love the new starter. It is an instant start now. The one I have is a mini. I think. It is half the weight of an original starter and I put heat wrap on it so if I do go to long tube headers, I don't burn it up. The starter and the sc's are my 2 fav things I have put on it. The only bad thing is that that I have all that money into it and no real performance on it yet

canesstangnitro · Mar 5, 2008

I have not heard a lot of good things about places that tune cars down here in New Orleans, Louisiana. Does anyone know of a good place in the area. I am willing to travel to Donaldsonville which is where the popular race track is or Baton Rouge if I have to. I want a good place to tune the car. Any sugg places in south Louisiana?

Stanger007 · Mar 7, 2008

Hey man, HISSIN gave me a heads up on your thread. If you are looking for a good, professional tuner, Vince at L&S Automotive is very good and is familiar with Foxes. I also do tuning on the side but I tend to stay mostly on the 94/95 Mustangs.

I'll reply back to this thread later on with more thoughts on your combo.

Wes

HISSIN50 · Mar 7, 2008

Stanger007 said:
Hey man, HISSIN gave me a heads up on your thread. If you are looking for a good, professional tuner, Vince at L&S Automotive is very good and is familiar with Foxes. I also do tuning on the side but I tend to stay mostly on the 94/95 Mustangs.

I'll reply back to this thread later on with more thoughts on your combo.

Wes

Thank you Wes.

irish · Mar 7, 2008

Not sure why you want to stay SD if you have the parts to go mass air already, I'm no crystal ball reader but after you get your parts installed(by the way if you have not installed a cam before you might consider getting someone to help you degree it)I predict a wicked surging idle and driveability issues. You will not be happy with the way your car runs with those nice new go fast parts and SD, I sure was not when I built my current car which is no more radical then yours.

Matt

Stanger007 · Mar 8, 2008

Chris - first off, you are going to have a blast with the h/c/i install. It is not as hard as you would think, especially if you have a helper.

Secondly, what are your goals with the car, is it more of a fun car, sees a lot of highway miles? This will help me give you a better answer.

Here are some pictures I've got of some TrickFlow builds I have been a part of, you can click around and get an idea of what is involved:

95 GT, Trickflow Street Heat topend: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wesratcliff/sets/72157603752605862/
94 GT, Trickflow Street Heat topend: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wesratcliff/collections/72157600274862080/
95 GT, Track Heat heads: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wesratcliff/sets/72157603360816671/

Wes

2000xp8 · Mar 8, 2008

Don't even consider running that setup with SD. Unless of course you like headaches.
It will work with certain cams which can be found on 50tech.com (there is a list), still not worth the trouble IMO.

Going mass air is almost inevitable for most mustang owners, so why not just get it out of the way now since you have the parts.

canesstangnitro · Mar 9, 2008

yea. I am going to put the maf conversion on. I have had it almost 2 years, bought it on ebay, so I am going to put it on. I did most of it before but found out I needed the speed sensor for the tranny because my car is not cruise control.

I plan on making this a fun weekend car, but one that will do alright at the track which is the reason for going with the track heat intake and heads. I just want around 400 to the wheels and around 450 with nitrous. I plan right now to stick with the stock block and I really don't want to mess with changing the internals right now.

Right now I have the maf conversion kit, 30 lb injectors, the intake manifold, and I just bought a mac cai. Now I just need the rr's, cam, pushrods, and that is when I wanted to ask you.

Like I said, I want to drive it on the street maybe once or twice a week. It is not a daily driver, and I don't want it to be a racecar. Any info you can give me on the install would help

Stanger007 · Mar 9, 2008

With the trickflow kit you will end up somewhere around 300-320rwhp, well short of your goal. You will be able to run in the high 12s like that no problems with experienced driving. A shot of nitrous will get you closer to your goals and into the 11s, you'll just want to make sure you've got a good tire and good shifting to keep the transmission happy.

To hit 400rwhp N/A it will have to be more of a purpose built combo than a generic kit with compromises. That is where a custom cam guy will step in with a cam and also recommendations on the valvetrain to keep it stable as you spin it up to hit your goal.

When you rebuilt your engine, did you pistons have valve reliefs - I believe it was the 86 that didn't have them? Something to make sure of.

If the rwhp figures above are good, I can put you in contact with someone that runs the exact combo you are talking about. He likes it but notes the bottom end is weak.

The trickflow RRs are good pieces, I also really like the red Comp Cams but they are more expensive. The pushrods end up around 6.700 or 6.750 on the kits.

Wes

EDIT: The MAF conversion is a winner for sure, I would highly recommend that. It will save you some headaches in the future and I am sure the tuner will appreciate it.

canesstangnitro · Mar 9, 2008

I hope to get a little more than 300-320 by porting the heads if I have to. I was thinking about sending them off to tmoss to have them ported to get more out of them. What do you think of that idea? How much does it normally cost to port heads?

Another thing. and thank you for your help by the way. I told hissin what setup I plan to run I think I have it on here. I am not really installing the whole tf kit, I am piecing it together so that I can get the track heat heads and a stronger cam. I was going to go with the track h stage 2 cam if you think that will work well? I have 30 lb injectors, a mac cai, the ma meter calib for 30 lb injectors, and the maf kit that I am doing all at the same time. I did not want to install one thing and bogg down another area.

As far as the engine rebuild, this is an 87 so I don't think I would have those problems you talked about, but I did not do the rebuild.

ps. I don't really have to have a certain number on the hp. that is just the area I want to be in. low 12's high 11's. What is your suggestion on the tires to run. I really want to get a different set of wheels 15 inch weld wheels to put on when I go to the track and a different set to run on the street. I have 16 inch pony's on the car now so I was thinking about going with goodyear eagle f1 gs-d3 245/50-16's on the rear and 225/50-16's on the front. My girlfirned has these tires and she loves them. do you think that is a good tire to run on my 'stang?

Thank you for all your help Wes.

Chris

Stanger007 · Mar 9, 2008

To get more out of the TF than the average guy, you want to look at getting a custom cam, I'll include links to a couple well known cam guys in the Mustang circles. Contact them when you've got the cash in hand and ready to move. They will also be VERY opinionated on the springs, keepers, rockers, lifters etc that you run, it will all be specifically matched up to your car and its gearing.

http://www.flowtechinduction.com/index.htm
http://www.camshaftinnovations.com/

If you decide that route is too expensive then I think the stage 2 cam will work just fine if you don't mind the slight loss of lowend grunt that the stage 1 would retain.

Do look at using some different head gaskets, the last build I did I used the FelPro 9333-PT1 after doing a good deal of research. The 8548-PT2 are also good.

As for tires, the BFG and MT drag radials really work well on the back. If you want something that will last longer you'll have to compromise on the grip, the Nitto 555R drag radial works well in that case. I run the Nittos on my car as it is a daily driver and they wear nicely and will hook decently with a good burnout. They are for sure a step up from your everyday tire.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com is where I've purchased the last couple sets of tires.

The Eagle F1 is a fine tire and will work well on the fronts, lot of choices there depending on what you want to spend.

On the head porting, I don't believe TMOSS does heads, here are two outfits that do port and do it well:
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/
http://www.foxlakeracing.com/

Wes

Stanger007 · Mar 9, 2008

Last thing - for the guys that I've helped out, I get them to make an Excel spreadsheet of all the bits and pieces that they need. I'll try to dig up a couple TF-kit-centric sheets to send on to you - PM me your email address.

Wes

millhouse · Mar 10, 2008

Just a little heads up in regards to the heads. The twisted wedge and the track heat heads are in fact the same design….with the exception of the track heats having no internal EGR provisions. This allows it to be ported (later on) more than the standard wedge heads. At one point in time, the spring and valve lock upgrade was only available on the track heat heads…but this has been changed (it is now available on both).

canesstangnitro · Mar 11, 2008

at what point do you think it is necessary to switch to 31 spline axles. When I was changing the gears, the axles did not look great so I know I need axles. I was just going to go with moser 28 spline axles. Should these axles be strong enough to handle high 300 low 400 tq numbers?

Stanger007 · Mar 12, 2008

The axles are greatly dependent on how hard you are launching and what tire. While it's hard to make one hard and fast rule for everyone, if you don't go any more aggressive than say a Nitto drag radial then you will not hook hard enough to break anything, they will spin first.

If you want to go more aggressive (not a bad idea in my opininon), the Cobra differential and superior 31 spline axles have been known to take quite a bit of abuse and are great buy for the money.

You can look around and find quite a few other differentials as well for more money that will suit even more aggressive launches.

Wes

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