Help Diagnose my low rwhp issue. Any experts?

I may end up having to fix this myself. Here's what I've ended up with. I have a 414 c.i. engine with a .586 lift cam, 210cc heads and an edelbrock victor intake putting out a $hity 352rwhp. Any experts have any guesses why? Would weak valve springs cause this problem? Why would a rocker arm only have 1/8th of a turn of play that I could adjust? Is that a sign of weak springs?

Last of all, does anyone know of a good shop in the Baltimore area that can look at my car and:

A. Won't take it out and drive the piss out of it.
B. Won't charge me tons of money to fix.
C. Someone that can commit to a date to bring the car in and have it out.

I am at the point where I just want the @#$% #$#% car fixed. I don't care what the reason.

Thanks.

BlackVert said:

did you get it running again?

Click to expand...

Thanks for asking. No Chris I did not get the car running. I learned from another engine guy that was able to give me some advice that you can NOT use a stock 351 distributor with my engine. You have to get a higher performance distributor that has a harder gear. My distributor gear did not break but about half of the tines were crushed because it is apparently too soft. Therefore the rotor would not spin. This is what caused the car to stop running.

I guess I am going to have the engine cleaned out now just in case any metal flakes got in the oil pan. I have no #^&*ING idea how to do this, how much it costs or if it can even be done without taking the whole motor apart. The car stopped immediately as it had no more spark to run with. It cranks fine and I imagine if there are any flakes, they are in the oil pan.

Here are my specs:

414ci 10.45:1comp

Hyd Roller CAM SPECS @ .050" .586/.584 248/254 108cl 112lsa (power will be around 3200-6500rpm)

ProComp Heads 210cc, 60cc chamber 2.05 int x 1.60ext

1.60" Rockers

Edelbrock VICTOR intake

80mm TB

90mm Lightning MAF

36# inj, flow tested/matched

stock rails

255 lph FUEL PUMP

Nice. I wish I would have known all this from the start. Chris just make sure you have a steel gear on your distributor. Better yet, buy a good quality distributor made for these engines and be done with it. Thanks guys.

Sure Mike. "ProComp Heads 210cc, 60cc chamber 2.05 int x 1.60ext"

Most of the people I have talked to have agreed that the heads should still have gotten me to 400rwhp.

Thanks Pro. I think I have figured out how to get a timely solution to all this. I will report back.

"On a stud mount you arrive at zero lasg, and then turn the nut 1/4-3/4 of a turn and snug down the poly-lock. This is assuming that you have already checked the pushrod length/geometry or had it checked and its correct."

When I first got the engine I went to start it and it sounded like a buzz saw and refused to start. My cousin found out that the rockers were tightened down incredibly tight and said the valves were held open or something. Bear with me cuz I aint no expert. All I know is that it wouldn't start and the rocker arms were adjusted incorrectly. He attempted to adjust them and after ZERO lash we couldn't go past 1/16-1/8th of a turn or the car would go back to sounding like a buzz saw and wouldn't start cuz I guess that made it too tight.

"What RPM did it make peak HP and TQ at?"
5000rpm

"How much timing are you running?"
15*

"Did it pull cleanly through the gear on the dyno or was it breaking up?"
Clean.

"How does the graph look and what smoothing factor was used?"
Looks fine to me. Dunno what smoothing means.

"What kind of dyno was it (dynojet/mustang/or other)?"
Whatever SGS uses dunno.

"Are all the plug wires on correctly?"
LOL. Yes.


"What is the base timing?"
10* I think.

"Have you done a compression test?""
Yep. After the 1/16th turn approx 160-180 was the reading.

As to the diagnosis, I would work with my builder but he doesn't have time and I am tired of waiting. So I am will figure it out myself.

"The rocker issue seems like a big one to me. If what you are saying is correct, you have the wrong length pushrods in there and this could cause all sorts of issues. I don't agree with setting the rockers "based on sound" though and 1/16-1/8th turn is no where near enough and "should" make for a LOUDER not a quiter engine. Are you sure you are arriving just at zero lash and not going past it?"

Absolutely no doubt.

" Did your builder set them up for you in the beginning? If so, I'd be very surprised if they are setup wrong. I'm trying no to doubt you and your cousin, but I my gut tells me you are not setting them up correctly, especially if they are a stud mount design."

Yes. And when I went to start the car...not even a rumble. Just schhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Until we found it was super tight. I can only tell you my experience and this is what I experienced upon first starting it with no adjustments. Freaked me out. EDIT: I mean the car would not even start. This is not what it sounded like with the engine running. The engine would not even run. When I hit the ignition all you would hear is the starting and a SCHZZZZZZZZZZZZZ sound. No kickover what-so-ever.

"I hope the 15# of timing was a misprint. If it wasn't there is your lost HP right there. You should be at least at 30-32* at a min. at full timing. If your base is 10* and you are only going to 15* that is 100% your problem. I doubt that is the case though and is more than likely a misprint as I know Dave at SGS well and he is a great tuner and wouldn't let that car out of there with that little of timing."

No I mean at the computer it is set to 10* and then advanced to 15*..prolly 32 total yes.

Which peak occured at 5000... HP or TQ? I want to know where both occured.

I have to check Paul.


"Edit- back to the rockers... most new engines will sound like this for a good while when first started due to the time required for the lifters to prime. I had my lifters soaking in oil for nearly 2 years before I put them in my engine and it still took like 5-10 minutes for them to quite down, and I even used an oil pump priming tool prior to first startup. When you tear it down and look at them they may appear to be over tightened as they haven't pumped up yet, this is especially true if you decent valve springs in the car. You'd have to tighten the rocker down a good 1/4" or more before you'd open the valve, and that would be WAY more than 1/8th turn of preload on a stud mount rocker. My gut tells me you should have left them alone and that they were not set wrong. I could absolutely be wrong, but your situation with the rockers just seems so off to me."

If I had left them alone my car would still be sitting in the garage and would have never run. Might have been better anyway. Again, I can only tell you exactly what happened. It was supposed to be ready to go , period, end of story, no adjustments. I went to start it and you guys know the story. After that the rockers just would not adjust properly. It shouldn't have been that way and I dont know why.

BTW KC..I think the TQ was down low....I'll look .

Ok. Thanks Chris. My stock distributor was also from an EFI truck..