HELP MY BRAKES SUCK

[Car Nut]

I have almost no brake dive when fully mashing the brake pedal to the floor. See my sig for a total explanation.

Here's the short of it with some details:

Good braking can always be had if you have decent pads, acceptable tire tread depth, fresh brake fluid, and no worn out suspension parts.

Brake dive........nothing helps better than stiffer springs. Another major help is C/C plates. My spring rates are 750/850 in the front compared to the stockers at somewhere near 400/475. A Mach 1 or Bullitt has 600 springs, but they dive a whole lot more than my H&R springs. I wouldn't recommend my springs for a daily driver UNTIL you've had a chance to ride in someone else's stang who has them. I love them and they're not to harsh, but they aint' no caddy either. To me, I'll take a slight bit of harshness to dramatically increase the safety and handling benefits in an emergency situation.

I did the cobra brake kit well after my suspension upgrades. I've always replaced my brake fluid every 12 months. Bad tire tread depth can be a nightmare, even with a ton of brake mods. My braking was much better with the new suspension, but it didn't feel totally safe until I got the whole brake system upgraded.

I can only recommend what I've got installed. What my sig doesn't tell you is that I've got good tread depth, properly inflated tires (checked weekly), and brake fluid that is never more than 12 months old.

I say all that to state that even a stock brake setup could be made to do a good job. Suspension upgrades just help everything out in this area. Subframe connectors should be considered too.

 

[Car Nut]

Enjoy the read:

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=680239

Good article.

I should have mentioned that I bought all my brake stuff from Performance Parts Inc. www.performancepartsinc.com

PPI was great and everything in the kit was brand new. Still looks gorgeous over a year later and couldn't be happier. The kits were really all inclusive and had every nut and bolt.

 

[bimmertech]

"all that stuff helps, but not as much as a good set of caster/camber plates."

Bmmertech, can yo uexplain how this helps? I had not heard this before. Thanks.

well first off you have to understand that the front roll center on stangs is much lower than the rear. this creates a roll axis that angles down from the rear to front. when you push the brakes the car goes towards the lower part of the roll axis. on a lowered car this can actually get worse. the front roll center can be below the surface of the ground and the rear can be up in the trunk.

added caster(via plates or revised control arms/k-members) will raise the front roll center enough to help level out the roll axis. also add a panhard bar that helps lower the rear roll center and you should have a close to level roll axis. this also helps the way the vehicle leans during conering.

if you have ever driven a bmw(if i remeber you have an E60) then you will notice that it has a lot less brake dive and can also use much bigger rear brakes. this is because they have a much better roll axis via superior(read costlier) engineering.

caster also helps out in so many other areas. one of note is camber gain. on our cars if you have less than 4 deg pos caster(factory is around 3) you will actually produce positive camber when you turn the wheels. with added caster you will finally gain negative camber when turning the wheel. this allows you to run less static camber and still have negative camber when you need it.

 

[Pokageek]

Enjoy the read:

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=680239

Nuff said. I wont order from them.

"well first off you have to understand that the front roll center on stangs is much lower than the rear. this creates a roll axis that angles down from the rear to front. when you push the brakes the car goes towards the lower part of the roll axis. on a lowered car this can actually get worse. the front roll center can be below the surface of the ground and the rear can be up in the trunk.

added caster(via plates or revised control arms/k-members) will raise the front roll center enough to help level out the roll axis. also add a panhard bar that helps lower the rear roll center and you should have a close to level roll axis. this also helps the way the vehicle leans during conering.

if you have ever driven a bmw(if i remeber you have an E60) then you will notice that it has a lot less brake dive and can also use much bigger rear brakes. this is because they have a much better roll axis via superior(read costlier) engineering.

caster also helps out in so many other areas. one of note is camber gain. on our cars if you have less than 4 deg pos caster(factory is around 3) you will actually produce positive camber when you turn the wheels. with added caster you will finally gain negative camber when turning the wheel. this allows you to run less static camber and still have negative camber when you need it." - bimmertech

Thanks man. I had no idea our cars were egineered that way. Yes, my E60 brakes INCREDIBLE. Best braking I have ever had on a car.

 

[bimmertech]

Thanks man. I had no idea our cars were egineered that way. Yes, my E60 brakes INCREDIBLE. Best braking I have ever had on a car.

i have a total brake fetish--weird, i know. good thing is i can fulfill it daily. i have driven alot of higher end cars in my day and i still think bmw has some of the best brakes around. what is really mind blowing is they do it all with usually half(or less) the amount of pistons in the calipers. its amazing what a well sorted out suspension/chassis can do for braking dynamics.

another cool thing about bmw's is that most use dual pivot lower control arms which actually causes the track width to be wider than the fender openings. i can go on for days.....

 

[BlownFiveLiter]

Now if only they made a good looking car to go along with all that engineering... Sorry, I've just never liked the way a BMW looks. They have that Hitler moustache looking grille to me. Give me a Benz anyday based on looks, although I have heard many first hand accounts that a BMW is a better car, hands down.

 

[Pokageek]

i have a total brake fetish--weird, i know. good thing is i can fulfill it daily. i have driven alot of higher end cars in my day and i still think bmw has some of the best brakes around. what is really mind blowing is they do it all with usually half(or less) the amount of pistons in the calipers. its amazing what a well sorted out suspension/chassis can do for braking dynamics.

another cool thing about bmw's is that most use dual pivot lower control arms which actually causes the track width to be wider than the fender openings. i can go on for days.....

Yes. And since we are on the subject, how about the perfect 50/50 weight ratio! I still want to get a bumper sticker that says "I'd rather be drivin my Ford" but I like the car. And yes Benz is JUNK JUNK JUNK. Owned one. Hated it.

 

[bimmertech]

mb's are not drivers cars. i will say i like the looks of alot of them, but that is where it stops.

just a comparo, but a 02 e55 amg has 8 piston front calipers/4 piston rears weighs the same as an 02 M5 that has 1 piston calipers all the way around yet the M5 has a shorter stopping distance.

 

[SN95StangMan]

mb's are not drivers cars. i will say i like the looks of alot of them, but that is where it stops.

just a comparo, but a 02 e55 amg has 8 piston front calipers/4 piston rears weighs the same as an 02 M5 that has 1 piston calipers all the way around yet the M5 has a shorter stopping distance.

yeah, but those 8 piston calipers look cool as hell

 

[Pokageek]

I think MB's are facinating and rock in the performance area. But they are not DD in my o based on the problems I have had and many others I know..like the rotors seemingly always getting warped (at least mine) and the dam rear window clips always breaking, and several other "issues" always putting the car in the shop.

As to the hitler comment on the bimmers . That is about the biggest insult I have ever heard on a car, lol. And I just don't see it at all. They are great looking cars. Jags are too.

Back to brakes, the worst so far are my uncles buick regal brakes. Maybe it is after getting out of my bmer...no they seemed worse than the stangs brakes now that I think about it, O and my MB had like...alien brakes lol. The emergency brakes in the rear..if I remember correctly had its OWN little set or brake pads and disk within the main disks!!

 

[Engel]

ok all we need now in this thread is some good brake ****

somone post up those 8 piston calipers lol






i love the bmw suspension, but i am not a big fan of the looks either

 

[go-stang5.0]

I know firsthand what you are talking about bimmertech. My buddy has a e30 318 with a pretty much stock brake system. He runs pagid blue pads (which are quite streetable) and his pads last 2x as long as mine on on an equivalent amount of track days. I have the cobra setup up front and the 13" baer rear upgrade and I was running carbotech panther pluses (front) which were much more agressive than his pads and he was still braking about as well as I was. Thats with a phb and my steeda CC plates maxed out on caster. Man I need a torque arm .