I'm getting ready to pull the 351 cleveland out of my '72 Mach 1. It's a Q code car, but somebody along the way has slapped 2V heads and a 2 bbl carb on her. I've bought a set of 4V heads, and now I'm searching for the right rebuild kit. I would like to buy as many of the parts as I can from 1 manufacture. I was thinking comp cams for the cam,rods,lifters, and rockers if available. Edelbrock for a mani and carb. Also, there is a Clevite 77 rebuild kit with pistons, rings, bearings, and timing set. Cam specs, and suggested carb size would be helpful. Also, any words of wisdom or additonal suggestions would be greatly welcomed.
Help selecting parts for 351c
- Thread starter slick_willie
- Start date
okay for the bottom end check out the performance automotive warehouse catalog. they have complete kits that you can get, and have them add balancing(a wise thing to do), and all the macine work, except for block machining is done for you.
i like the edelbrock performer rpm, and torker ll cams for the 351c, but, if they have one, get the weiand stealth intake. if you want to stay with edelbrock the performer rpm works just fine. if you want a comp cam, then the xe274h extreme energy cam works well with the above intakes. for a carb i would recomend the edelbrock, the road demon, or the holley in a 750 cfm carb. tuned right this combo should get close to 400hp if not a bit over.
i like the edelbrock performer rpm, and torker ll cams for the 351c, but, if they have one, get the weiand stealth intake. if you want to stay with edelbrock the performer rpm works just fine. if you want a comp cam, then the xe274h extreme energy cam works well with the above intakes. for a carb i would recomend the edelbrock, the road demon, or the holley in a 750 cfm carb. tuned right this combo should get close to 400hp if not a bit over.
www.pawengineparts.com is where you can order the catalog. last time i got one it was $5.00 plus postage, but well worth the price as the catalog is 1200 pages!
Hack
15 Year Member
I've spent a lot of time hanging out here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419 (check out the Build Forum)
and here:
http://www.corral.net/forums/
I recommend you look there. Depending on what you want to build, it may or may not be very useful. It seems to me that most people building Clevelands want high horsepower builds. From your post, it seems you want a "convenience" build, buying parts from the same manufacturers.
The best thing for you might be to take the motor to someone local to you who has experience with 351C 4V builds and have that person pick out a combination that will work. You haven't said whether you bought closed chamber 4V heads, or whether they are the later smog heads. I'm assuming below that you bought CC heads. Things are different for the OC heads.
I see a real likelihood here that the parts you buy won't work together and you'll be dissatisfied with the results. It's important that the parts all complement each other.
I've never seen an Edelbrock intake recommended before this post. The Weiand Xcellerator is great for a 2V build, but I've never seen someone recommend a Weiand for a 4V build.
Don't use a high volume oil pump on a Cleveland.
For a 4V build the Holley Strip Dominator (no longer made) and the Blue Thunder are common recommendations I see. These are high rpm pieces. The 4V heads like displacement (stroker), rpms and compression. They are terrific for high rpm, high horsepower builds.
I'm building a Cleveland next year some time and I was recently talking to a local engine builder. He recommended port stuffers on both the intake and exhaust ports for a street 4V cc Cleveland. The ports are so huge on the 4V heads that the flow velocity at low rpms suffers. This is a point of contention, some people will tell you not to worry about it, but I believe those are people who run quite high horsepower builds.
Anyway, I'm rambling..to really do this topic justice I would have to write pages, especially since you haven't said anything about your goals and uses for the motor. My main point is that you're going to be spending quite a bit of money on the build - either do the research, or pay someone who knows what they're doing to pick the parts. You'll be much happier in the end.
Good Luck! Post what you decide and the results when you're done!
http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419 (check out the Build Forum)
and here:
http://www.corral.net/forums/
I recommend you look there. Depending on what you want to build, it may or may not be very useful. It seems to me that most people building Clevelands want high horsepower builds. From your post, it seems you want a "convenience" build, buying parts from the same manufacturers.
The best thing for you might be to take the motor to someone local to you who has experience with 351C 4V builds and have that person pick out a combination that will work. You haven't said whether you bought closed chamber 4V heads, or whether they are the later smog heads. I'm assuming below that you bought CC heads. Things are different for the OC heads.
I see a real likelihood here that the parts you buy won't work together and you'll be dissatisfied with the results. It's important that the parts all complement each other.
I've never seen an Edelbrock intake recommended before this post. The Weiand Xcellerator is great for a 2V build, but I've never seen someone recommend a Weiand for a 4V build.
Don't use a high volume oil pump on a Cleveland.
For a 4V build the Holley Strip Dominator (no longer made) and the Blue Thunder are common recommendations I see. These are high rpm pieces. The 4V heads like displacement (stroker), rpms and compression. They are terrific for high rpm, high horsepower builds.
I'm building a Cleveland next year some time and I was recently talking to a local engine builder. He recommended port stuffers on both the intake and exhaust ports for a street 4V cc Cleveland. The ports are so huge on the 4V heads that the flow velocity at low rpms suffers. This is a point of contention, some people will tell you not to worry about it, but I believe those are people who run quite high horsepower builds.
Anyway, I'm rambling..to really do this topic justice I would have to write pages, especially since you haven't said anything about your goals and uses for the motor. My main point is that you're going to be spending quite a bit of money on the build - either do the research, or pay someone who knows what they're doing to pick the parts. You'll be much happier in the end.
Good Luck! Post what you decide and the results when you're done!
actually the problem was with 351w's and either high volume or high pressure pumps shedding dist gear teeth in fairly short order. one thing i would recomend you do on ANY 351c build is to install an oil restrictor kit. this will ensure full oil pressure to the mains first.
Hack
15 Year Member
The problem that people have with Clevelands that spin to greater than 6,000 rpms is that the top end of the engine fills with oil, the pan runs dry and pressure may drop. If you're not going to run up there you shouldn't worry. You also don't need to do any other fancy modifications. However, I have read that if you're building your car to handle you should use an oversized pan with baffles (probably important to people who will autox their cars).351carlo said:
The reason I mentioned it is that Clevelands, especially closed chamber 4V Clevelands, really love to rev. I probably shouldn't have been vague, but I'm trying not to post a book.
Also be careful about putting in an oil restrictor kit, especially if you're running hydraulic lifters. Hydraulic lifters need a good supply of oil. I forget which areas should still be restricted. You can find the information on the network 54 cleveland forum. Edit: restrictors aren't needed at under 6,000 rpms either.
Thanks for the good info. I would like to have this motor turn out approx 400 hp. It will be drivin on the street, and perhaps taken to 1 or 2 drags in the summer, but nothing serious. I figured ordering parts from the same manufacture would ensure everything would fit together well, and there would be less hassle in the end.
For a 400+HP motor that is very streetable I would recommend the following – 750 Holley, Blue Thunder intake manifold, 4v quench heads with 10.5:1 compression ratio, performance cam, 1 ¾” headers to a 2 ½” exhaust, 3.90 gears, electronic ignition. These are just the basics but the vehicle will perform really well and be docile, depending on the cam you pick.
To get the engine to the “next level” of performance, if that is important to you, you should consider the following – a roller cam, roller rockers, screw-in studs for the heads, port the heads, titanium locks and retainers for the valve springs, Manley Severe Duty valves with a good valve job. If you want to get crazy (I did) have the intake ports epoxied (“stuffed”) and port match the rest of the port to the intake manifold. 1 7/8” headers to a 2 ½” or 3” exhaust. Then you will have to get a single plane intake like the Holley Strip Dominator or a Parker Funnelweb. A compromise would be a Torker and I believe they fit under a stock hood as well. At this point, depending on the cam, you will have enough power, to have a 12 or 11 second vehicle, approximately 470 – 495 FWHP. Getting that power to the ground effectively is another matter.
If you want a docile vehicle, i.e. nice idle manners that still performs extremely well, focus on getting the heads worked and upgraded and then get a middle of the road performance cam. With big heads that flow a lot of air you don’t need a big cam. The Comp cams solid 282S is a good choice, if you prefer a hydraulic cam then maybe something along the lines of duration @ .050 lift 226 to 232 duration. If you have the money roller cams are hard to beat. A good resource for a cam is Cam Research he will be able to recommend a decent grind for your application. There are a lot of other cam grinders that know Clevelands if you want other recommendations.
It is not difficult to get a Cleveland, even a mild one, into the 425 HP level. It is in the details and making sure that the parts are all well matched.
To get the engine to the “next level” of performance, if that is important to you, you should consider the following – a roller cam, roller rockers, screw-in studs for the heads, port the heads, titanium locks and retainers for the valve springs, Manley Severe Duty valves with a good valve job. If you want to get crazy (I did) have the intake ports epoxied (“stuffed”) and port match the rest of the port to the intake manifold. 1 7/8” headers to a 2 ½” or 3” exhaust. Then you will have to get a single plane intake like the Holley Strip Dominator or a Parker Funnelweb. A compromise would be a Torker and I believe they fit under a stock hood as well. At this point, depending on the cam, you will have enough power, to have a 12 or 11 second vehicle, approximately 470 – 495 FWHP. Getting that power to the ground effectively is another matter.
If you want a docile vehicle, i.e. nice idle manners that still performs extremely well, focus on getting the heads worked and upgraded and then get a middle of the road performance cam. With big heads that flow a lot of air you don’t need a big cam. The Comp cams solid 282S is a good choice, if you prefer a hydraulic cam then maybe something along the lines of duration @ .050 lift 226 to 232 duration. If you have the money roller cams are hard to beat. A good resource for a cam is Cam Research he will be able to recommend a decent grind for your application. There are a lot of other cam grinders that know Clevelands if you want other recommendations.
It is not difficult to get a Cleveland, even a mild one, into the 425 HP level. It is in the details and making sure that the parts are all well matched.
I agree with '69Stang, EXCEPT, if you're gonna do any serious mods to a Cleve, PLEASE ditch the factory valves. I had a LOW-PO C snap the head off those welded POS's, and you could imagine the mess that made. A good set of single piece valves should be a staple of any C build up, mild to wild.
His second build description is sounds like my 393 build up, Torker, 850 Demon, 10.5:1 comp, Hooker Comps, and a Comp 246/256 duration solid lifter cam.
His second build description is sounds like my 393 build up, Torker, 850 Demon, 10.5:1 comp, Hooker Comps, and a Comp 246/256 duration solid lifter cam.
72mach1
Founding Member
Wow, 400 hp streetable... Mine has 278 hp and 325 ft lbs of torque with a 3.25 read end, and it does 0-60 in about4-5 seconds, then asses out for a 16 sec 1/4, till it hits about 120 and the secondaries open and v/e takes over to rocket up to 140-145..... all on a almost stock 4v..... scary btw thats with edlbrock 735, torker 1 intake hooker long tubes and 2 1/2" exausghst I could only dream of 400hp!
Hack
15 Year Member
what are the casting numbers? The CC (same as quench) were made in '70 and '71. Some heads made in '71 are not closed chamber.slick_willie said:
edit: you're looking for a number like D0AE-H or D0AE-R (which would be 1970 closed chamber heads).
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