High engine idle, whats causing it?

MrCarlson

New Member
Jul 28, 2003
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Fargo, ND
I recently purchased a 97 F150 with a lot of mods. It has Ported PI heads, PI intake, BBK Mass air, TB, custom Crane cams, headers, etc and a Dyno tuned DiabloSports chip to make it all work together. This truck had been working well for the last 20k, but then had problems. Thats how I bought it.

The previous owner told me that it was running good, then it started to stumble when you accellerated, it got worse till it was undrivable. He had cranked up the fuel pressure till he had lifted an injector, so that was leaking when I got it (the custom/hacked fuel rails arn't perfect).

I reseated the fuel injector and got the fuel rail to sit better and then it started. It sounds good except it idles HIGH! Around 2k. the Fuel pressure seems to be fine and according to the A/F gauge it is running lean.

I ran the codes and the only code was a P1506 (IAC, engine speed to high). I swapped that out of my 02 GT and no change. I disconnected and plugged all vacuum lines off the upper intake, cleaned the Mass air, still no change. I pinched the line going to the IAC and no change, so I know that isn't it. I put a bag over the K&N filter to prevent any air from getting in, still no significant change.

At this point everything sounds like a vacuum leak to me.

I pulled the upper intake and inspected it allong with the throttle body. I saw no issues (but did clean the TB a little). I inspected the lower intake and didn't see anything with it on the vehicle (this is the plastic PI intake with the aluminum coolant lines in the front). I tried to pressurize the intake and look for any leaks around the fuel injectors. I put some carb cleaner around them and looked for bubbles. I saw one that looked like it bubbled a little bit so I loosened everything up and reseated it. I couldn't get it to bubble again after that. I put it all back together and it is doing the exact same thing.

Any ideas? It seems wierd that it could be the intake because it seemed like I could pressurize it at least a little bit (I was using an air supply into where the upper intake goes "sealed" with a damp chamois. I could get enough pressure that it was bubbling up around that chamois, so it seems like it is sealed somehow.

The only other thing I can think of doing at this point is pulling the intake and inspecting that and the intake runners. Anything else I should be looking at? Most of my stuff is older so I only have one other Mod motor, and that is a nearly stock 02 GT (exhaust and a different Mass Air, thats it).

thanks in advance.
-MrCarlson
 
Since you have a high idle after messing with the injectors, you should replace the injector o-rings or its possible that one may be missing. Make sure you put some oil on them so they seal better.

Also I bet the aftermarket mass air is causing the stumbling. I'm sure it's the actual mass air in an aftermarket tube that's messing it up.

Is it a 5.4 or 4.6? Another guess would have something to do with the PI intake from a mustang.
 
I suspect you may be right about the injectors, but I sure can't see anything when looking at them installed or looking to see if any fluid leaks through the base when I put a puddle of carb cleaner in the hole they sit in.

I think I am going to pull the lower intake today to see if I can find something by looking at the bottom side. I think I am going to pull it with the injector rails on it if possible so I can see from the bottom if they are installed right.

As far as the Mass Air, do you think it just broke? Would that throw a code or do you suspect that it is just way off?

I took it for a drive down the road and back yesterday, Besides the high idle it seemed to drive pretty good, although the A/F gauge always read really lean (I am not sure that the gauge works properly except that it only reads lean when the engine is running and will go to normal when it has been sitting shut off for a while. One other thing I noticed was that there was a definate vacuum leak sound when I got on it, it almost sounded like a blowoff valve on a turbo car, like there was quite a bit of air going through a fairly small hole.

Thanks for the feedback
-MrCarlson
 
Here is an update.

I pulled the lower intake last night. The intake ports on the heads, the intake and the injectors (including o-rings) all looked fine. I spent a lot of time cleaning and inspecting things looking for any possible issue. I looked a lot around the seals looking for any signs of leaks.

I put it all back together tonight and it does the EXACT same thing! Idles at about 2k. Revs good when you crack the throttle, but is slow to drop back down. Again I pulled all the vacuum lines off the lower intake and plugged them to verify that there was no leak there. I also plugged the inlet line on the IAC just to verify that isn't the problem.

I just can't figure out what is causing this. I pulled the Mass air off when it was running and the motor immediately died, so it is metering some air that comes in (probably why it is running so lean). I just don't know what else could be causing it to run so crazy high...

Any ideas anyone?

-MrCarlson
 
I looked at the TB hard stop to see if it looked like anything had changed (since it didn't used to idle this high). It is seated on the stop firmly and there is no easy adjustment (the head is cut off the bolt that sets it from the factory and it is loc-tite'ed so it won't accidently move, its a BBK 75mm TB). I had considered changing that, but wasn't sure if I wanted to mess with factory settings.

I have a "scanguage II" tool that I am using to monitor a lot of the sensor readouts. The TPS reads 23... which is higher than other vehicles I have had it in, and makes me assume that it should be adjusted a little. The only thing is, it doesn't make any difference what the TPS says when the TB is closed and its idling, it isn't like the TPS being off is going to add more air to the system when I make the IAC non-functional.

As far as getting the correct IAC for the application, thats a tough one. What application, the stock 4.6 that the truck came with (and the computer is for, although it has a chip messing with all the factory settings) or the 01-04 mustang GT that the heads and upper and lower intake came off of. I putt a 02 mustang GT one on, and it didn't make any difference. I also have pinched off the air inlet for the IAC, so it can't actually let in any air, and it doesn't make any difference. I think that there is the potential for there to be somethign wrong with the IAC, but I don't see any way that it could be causing the high idle when I cut off its air supply.

If you think I am wrong about any of my assumptions, please don't hessitate to point it out. I am obviously missing something because I have checked EVERYTHING I can think of and can't find the problem.

-MrCarlson
 
The TPS reads 23? Is that 23V, 2.3V, or .23V. If I remember correctly it should read between .95v -.99v when fully closed. If it's reading higher then make sure that the TB is closing completely.
 
Unfortuantely, I do not know what the "scale" is on the TPS reading on the gauge its not a multimeter, its a realtime gauge that plugs into the ODB2 plug, see ScanGaugeII - Trip Computers + Digital Gauges + Scan Tool ). I do know that my car reads 15, and I could check a few others to see what is common, but I don't know exactly what that number is (maybe %, but I find that hard to believe, but I guess I coudl floor it and figure it out).

Anyhow, I went back out to the garage after reading birdman941's post cause I am going crazy trying to figure out what is causing this. I decided that maybe I would move the TB hard stop, but then realized that I could even easier just bend the tab slightly that hits the stop... I bent it out a little and the RPM dropped, a few more tries and I got it to idle down to about 700 RPM! WOO HOO, nothing like tearing the intake side of a motor down numerous times when all I needed to do was bend a damn tab. Oh well, the good news is that I now KNOW the condition of the other intake parts (plus, I found a hose clamp in the intake port on the head of #3 cyl, lucky it was big enough to get stuck before hitting the valve).

Now that I have the throttle thing under control... it still has a drivability issue. Watching the A/F gauge it cycles back and forth wildly when cruising at lower RPMs... wildly like from off the gauge lean right up to touching the rich side, and it will cycle back and forth every couple of seconds. It will get so lean that it will ping if you try to accellerate when it is on the low side. The fuel pressure stays constant (at about 50psi). The TPS reading stays steady, so I don't think it is that jumping all around. I only drove it for a couple of miles, but it didn't throw any codes, so I am not sure what is wrong. I did find a O2 Sensor that was unpluged (pass side b4 the cat) but I plugged that in before my test drive. The Mixture did seem to be much more stable at higher RPMs, so if I reved it to about 2k or so and then slipped the clutch it was much better.

Any suggestions there would be welcome, but I think I will do a bit more research and try to provide more specific details if I can't figure it out. I might have to bring it in to a friend of mine's shop where they have some better scan tools.

Thanks for the responces, especially birdman941, who pointed me back to the obvious!

-MrCarlson
 
Team801,

Your probably right... I think I should just replace the TPS and clean the Mass Air (again). I was saying that the TPS wasn't jumping around, but after thinking about it, my gauge has a pretty slow refresh rate (maybe twice a second) so if it was jumping, I wouldn't nessisarily see it. They are cheap, I think I will just buy a new one and put it on tonight.

Mr_Carlson