High volume oil pump

Blue1965

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Nov 10, 2009

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Idaho

Nov 11, 2009

#1

• Nov 11, 2009

• #1

Im planning my 408w build and next on the list is picking an oil pump. Is there really any advantage to using a high volume pump over just a stock pump? I plan on using a 7 or 8 quart pan and dont plan on spinning it over 6500 rpm. Also going to use a roller cam and roller rockers if that makes any difference.

Cody

 

rbohm

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Apr 12, 2002

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#2

• Nov 11, 2009

• #2

dont bother with the high volume oil pump you dont need it. the windsor will do just fine with a standard volume pump. do however upgrade the oil pump driveshaft.

 

6

66 4D 289

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May 27, 2009

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#3

• Nov 11, 2009

• #3

So when is it worth getting a high volume oil pump? Are they only a must have for a high revving, high horse power motors or can a daily driver, 289 expected to make 300 -350hp use them as well.
Only asking as I'm about to get one myself and if I dont need to go high volume then I wont.

 

woodsnake

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Jan 16, 2007

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Nov 11, 2009

#4

• Nov 11, 2009

• #4

My experience tells me,(Flame suit on? Check).

That small block Fords don't need one on the street. 335, (351C,M,400) yes.
385, It depends. FE 352-428, depends.
351W, no.

Can it hurt? Maybe. Chevy's are known for needing them because of their well known main bearing issues. Internal oiling is one area where Ford got it right.
HOWEVER, as was already mentioned,
You do need to get a better oil pump drive shaft, no matter what kind of rebuild you are planning.
PERIOD.
The stockers are the size and quality of a decent #2 pencil, and are commonly known for twisting in half.

 

Blue1965

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#5

• Nov 11, 2009

• #5

rbohm said:

dont bother with the high volume oil pump you dont need it. the windsor will do just fine with a standard volume pump. do however upgrade the oil pump driveshaft.

Click to expand...

Okay thats what I have been told before but just wanted to double check.

Thanks

 

woodsnake

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#6

• Nov 11, 2009

• #6

What part of Idaho are you in?

 

brianj5600

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Nov 11, 2009

#7

• Nov 11, 2009

• #7

Good thing you have on the flame suit! J/K The 351 based engines have a larger oil pump drive shaft and for standard pressure/volume I would not be afraid of a stock shaft. A 302 based engine needs an aftermarket shaft for a stock rebuild. Some engine builder like big bearing clearances, over .003", and may recommend a HV pump. Oil weight may change the amount of flow too.

 

blown65

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Jul 7, 1999

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Queen Creek Arizona

Nov 11, 2009

#8

• Nov 11, 2009

• #8

I'm running a STD Melling pump on mine with no issues of oil pressure on 10-30 oil. 45-50psi at idle and about 60 at 8000rpm. Our 408 Pantera also runs a std oil pump. Not sure the brand.

I second the upgraded shaft.

 

brianj5600

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#9

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blown65, do you know what the bearing clearances are set at?

 

Blue1965

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#10

• Nov 11, 2009

• #10

I see that ARP has the better shafts for about 20 bucks so I'll make sure and put it on my list along with a standard volume pump.

woodsnake said:

What part of Idaho are you in?

Click to expand...

Im in the Nampa-Boise area.


Thanks guys for the input!
Cody

 

blown65

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#11

• Nov 11, 2009

• #11

brianj5600 said:

blown65, do you know what the bearing clearances are set at?

Click to expand...

Well, if my memory was better ya. LOL Been a couple years, and I do have the build sheet somewhere but Ill have to go digging for it.

 

woodsnake

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Nov 11, 2009

#12

• Nov 11, 2009

• #12

Blue1965, you are now the 3rd member of stang net in the treasure valley.
DBFarr is also a local...I'm in Nampa myself....

 

Blue1965

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Nov 12, 2009

#13

• Nov 12, 2009

• #13

Awesome! Good to know that I'm not the lonely Idahoan like I usually am on forums. Haha. Ive probably seen you guys at car shows and swap meets as I try not to miss too many of those...

 

rbohm

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#14

• Nov 12, 2009

• #14

woodsnake said:

My experience tells me,(Flame suit on? Check).

That small block Fords don't need one on the street. 335, (351C,M,400) yes.
385, It depends. FE 352-428, depends.
351W, no.

Click to expand...

no flaming from me. i pretty much agree with you with one exception, i would put a high volume pump in an FE engine as well as the 335 series engines. with the 385 series engines, it does depend. even though they use the same oiling system as the 335, for some reason they dont have the oiling issues that the 335 have, however if you plan on turning rpms higher than 6k on a 385, then definitely you want a high volume pump.

 

M

madbrad

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Mar 6, 2003

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Albuquerque NM

Nov 13, 2009

#15

• Nov 13, 2009

• #15

From what I remember when I was trying to decide if I wanted a HV pump was your motor need to be built for it. Meaning the bearing clearance is a little looser. So putting a HV pump on a stock bearing is asking for trouble, same as LV on a motor made for a HV pump. I just bought a good quality LV pump with an ARP shaft.

 

65ShelbyClone

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Sep 9, 2000

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Antelope Valley, SoCal

Nov 13, 2009

#16

• Nov 13, 2009

• #16

The FMS pump shafts are good as well. ARP's is a larger diameter in the middle, but the hex at the ends is the same size and still the weakest point. I locked up a pump with the stock pump shaft and it made about four complete revolutions before breaking right at the distributor shaft. I also locked one up with an FMS replacement and it broke in the same place, but not before splitting the distributor shaft. That was in a 289 before I found the separated pickup screen and disintegrating umbrella seals.

As far as pumps go, the right one is usually determined by how the engine is built. A lower rpm street engine with tighter bearing clearances probably won't need high volume to maintain a given pressure. My 302 has a standard pump with tight mains and makes ~50psi cold regardless of rpm(probably the bypass pressure) and ~35psi hot at idle. Above ~1500rpm it climbs back up to 50psi. I wouldn't mind seeing 60psi, but I only spin it up to 5500-6000.

 

kiwimustang

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Oct 13, 2009

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Norflok,Nebraska

Nov 13, 2009

#17

• Nov 13, 2009

• #17

Hi, I am running a std melling oil pump no trouble. Here is a tech tip from Blueprint engineering on pumps.

Many people think that if they are running a performance engine, they need to run a high volume oil pump. This is a misconception, as high volume pumps are usually excessive in the amount of flow they provide, and this just means you are robbing horsepower. Melling makes an oil pump designed for performance that pumps 10% more oil than a stock pump, which is just right. Don't rob horsepower by assuming you need a high volume pump. Get Melling's "tweener" pump, and get the oil flow you need, no more, no less.

 

Hack

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Mar 23, 2004

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Minneapolis

Nov 13, 2009

#18

• Nov 13, 2009

• #18

65ShelbyClone said:

As far as pumps go, the right one is usually determined by how the engine is built. A lower rpm street engine with tighter bearing clearances probably won't need high volume to maintain a given pressure. My 302 has a standard pump with tight mains and makes ~50psi cold regardless of rpm(probably the bypass pressure) and ~35psi hot at idle. Above ~1500rpm it climbs back up to 50psi. I wouldn't mind seeing 60psi, but I only spin it up to 5500-6000.

Click to expand...

This.

Match the pump to the bearing clearances. I'm not that familiar with 385 series, but I know that on 335 series engines people often run into problems using high volume oil pumps. It's just not needed and it is possible to empty your oil pan when the oil pump moves too much oil. Then you have an engine spinning at high RPM with zero oil pressure.

 

6

68Blue302Coupe

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Nov 14, 2009

#19

• Nov 14, 2009

• #19

Hmmm, now I'm gettin' worried. I put a high volume pump on my (presumably) stock 1971 302. I got the 302 from a donor car but have now clue on the bearing clearances. The engine was supposedly rebuilt. At the time I thought a high vol. pump was just better. Should I remove the pump and replace it with a standard pump? I only recently restarted the engine after 6 years but have not put any miles on it yet.

 

rbohm

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#20

• Nov 14, 2009

• #20

68Blue302Coupe said:

Hmmm, now I'm gettin' worried. I put a high volume pump on my (presumably) stock 1971 302. I got the 302 from a donor car but have now clue on the bearing clearances. The engine was supposedly rebuilt. At the time I thought a high vol. pump was just better. Should I remove the pump and replace it with a standard pump? I only recently restarted the engine after 6 years but have not put any miles on it yet.

Click to expand...

the biggest problem with windsor engines, specifically the 351w, but the smaller windsor engines also have problems, when using the high volume pump are either sheared distributor gears, sheared distributor gear pins, or broken oil pump drive shafts. i would replace the high volume pump with a standard volume one fairly soon.