Hot stuff...

The garage looks really good. At first I thought it was going to be a pass-through on the left bay, which is something I always thought was cool. I can see spending many hours out there. Nice job

What occurs in theory and reality are two different animals. If tweaking the TPS feels like it helped, it probably helped. Twenty-something year old cars, aging components and a mix of OEM and aftermarket components are all contributing factors why something might not work as well is it should (in theory) or like it did when stock.

I think your problem is local to the 2 cylinders that cooked the wires.
Think about it logically.
They are likely running lean.
What causes a cylinder to run lean, but another to run fine?
Fuel injector on that cylinder(s).
Other than a vacuum leak, that is the first place I would have looked before replacing parts that affect every cylinder.

Code 14 - Ignition pickup (PIP) was erratic – the hall effect sensor in the distributor is failing. Bad sensor, bad wiring, dirty contacts.

Revised 10-Dec-2012 to add PIP diagnostic testing & Wells info

The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

PIP Sensor functionality, testing and replacement:
The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. A failing PIP sensor will often set code 14 in the computer. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

Some simple checks to do before replacing the PIP sensor or distributor:
You will need a Multimeter or DVM with good batteries: test or replace them before you get started.. You may also need some extra 16-18 gauge wire to extend the length of the meter’s test leads.
Visual check first: look for chaffed or damaged wiring and loose connector pins in the TFI harness connector.
Check the IDM wiring – dark green/yellow wire from the TFI module to pin 4 on the computer. There is a 22K Ohm resistor in the wiring between the TFI and the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 22,000 ohms +/- 10%.
Check the PIP wiring - dark blue from the TFI module to pin 56 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the SPOUT wiring – yellow/lt green from the TFI module to pin 36 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the black/orange wire from the TFI module to pin 16 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the red/green wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch on and the engine not running.
Check the red/blue wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch in Start and the engine not running. Watch out for the fan blades when you do this test, since the engine will be cranking.
If you do not find any chaffed or broken wires, high resistance connections or loose pins in the wiring harness, replace the PIP sensor or the distributor.

The PIP sensor is mounted in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. In stock Ford distributors, you have to press the gear off the distributor shaft to get access to it to replace it. Most guys just end up replacing the distributor with a reman unit for about $75 exchange

It is not uncommon to get a defective PIP sensor in a remanufactured distributor.

PIP problems & diagnostic info
Spark with the SPOUT out, but not with the SPOUT in suggests a PIP problem. The PIP signal level needs to be above 6.5 volts to trigger the computer, but only needs to be 5.75 volts to trigger the TFI module. Hence with a weak PIP signal, you could get spark but no injector pulse. You will need an oscilloscope or graphing DVM to measure the output voltage since it is not a straight DC voltage.

See http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i2_2004.pdf and http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i3_2004.pdf for verification of this little detail from Wells, a manufacturer of TFI modules and ignition system products.


Code 18 - SPOUT out or wiring fault - look for short to ground in SPOUT wiring going
back to the computer. Possible bad TFI or defective 22 K resistor in the IDM wiring

This code can disable spark advance and reduce power and fuel economy.

Remove the passenger side kick panel and disconnect the computer connector.
There is a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place.
Disconnect the TFI module connector from the TFI and the measure the resistance between the yellow/lt green wire and ground.
You should see greater than 100 K (100000) ohms.
Check the resistance from Pin 4 on the computer connector (dark green/yellow) and the dark green/yellow wire on the TFI connector. You should see 20-24 K Ohms (20,000-24,0000 ohms). The resistor is located in the wiring harness about 6” from the connector. You will need solder and heat shrink to replace the resistor if it is bad.
Next measure the resistance between the yellow/lt green wire on the TFI module connector and
Pin 36 on the computer connector. With the SPOUT plug in place, you should see less than 2 ohms.

The following is a view from the computer side of the computer connector.


This diagram is the wire side of the computer connector.


Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds




Putting the distributor back in and setting the timing.


You can forget about anything beyond this point if you don't have access to a timing light. You will never get the timing set right without one.


Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole, crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.

The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.

Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing.
If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that there is no such thing as one tooth off on a 5.0 Mustang. If it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range.


Setting the timing:
Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.

10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.

Note: setting the timing beyond the 10 degree mark will give you a little more low speed acceleration. BUT you will need to run 93 octane to avoid pinging and engine damage. Pinging is very hard to hear at full throttle, so it could be present and you would not hear it.

Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.

ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.

The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side to get 10 degrees.

To get 14 degrees, set it 7 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 7 marks towards the driver's side to get 14 degrees.

The paint marks you make are your friends if you do it correctly. They are much easier to see that the marks machined into the harmonic balancer hub.

At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug. Then start the engine.

Remove the SPOUT connector (do a search if you want a picture of the SPOUT connector) It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT
Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.

Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.

The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

cappy said:

thnks Jrichker, i'll have to check codes again. I thought I checked codes after i swapped the dizzy and tfi and came up w/ 11's. Checked FP today and it's low at 30 w/ the vac line at the FPR disconnected and plugged. I will check the fuel pressure again as I used a cheap guage and don't trust it. When I disconnected the gauge after the readings were done, I looked at the fittings and one of the 'needles' was a little bent. I poked at it a little and it simple fell out. Hooked it up again and its not working so....I will return it and try again to verify.

If the pressure it is at 30, that is too low right? Would that be low enough to cause stalling etc. correct?

Click to expand...

30 is definitely low, but the car will run down the road with that.
What I have seen is failing fuel pumps will drop off pressure gradually sometimes.
Each time I have seen that, I have focused on the regulator, but each time it was the fuel pump.
It dropped PSI gradually, slowly at first, then it degraded and dropped PSI quicker and quicker as it got lower.

Hopefully your gauge was wrong and this is not the issue.

Code 95 Key On, Engine not Running - the following test path is for 86-90 model Mustangs.

The 95 code is because at one time or another, the fuel pump relay hiccupped and didn't provide power the pump when the computer told it to run. Sometimes this is a one time thing, other times it is a no run or runs poorly condition.



Using the diagram, check the red/black wire from the fuel pump relay: you should see 12 volts or so. If not, check the inertia switch: on a hatch it is on the driver’s side by the taillight. Look for a black rubber plug that pops out: if you don't find it, then loosen up the plastic trim. Check for voltage on both sides of the switch. If there is voltage on both sides, then check the Pink/black wire on the fuel pump relay: it is the power feed to the fuel pump. No voltage there, check the Orange/Lt blue wire, it is the power feed to the fuel pump relay & has a fuse link in it. If there is good voltage there & at the Pink/black wire, swap the relay.

Some Mass Air conversions neglect to run the extra fuel pump wire, and they always have a 95 code. See http://www.stangnet.com/tech/maf/massairconversion.html for more information on the Mass Air wiring conversion.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

Chase the problems one at a time. Clear the codes and dump them again. If you still get a code 14, you still have PIP or wiring problems. Fix that first. Revisit my post on above on PIP problems and go through the wiring checks.

Do these cars have a KOER Continuous Monitor Diagnostic Test mode, aka "wiggle test" mode? I never tried it when I still had an EEC-IV Mustang.

65ShelbyClone said:

Do these cars have a KOER Continuous Monitor Diagnostic Test mode, aka "wiggle test" mode? I never tried it when I still had an EEC-IV Mustang.

Click to expand...

Yes.
Turn the ignition switch to Run and listen for all the actuators and relays to click and cycle. Then you can wiggle each suspect connection or wire. Any connection that generates 2 or more faults stores the code results in the KAM. Then you can dump the codes and read the results.

Have you checked the ground wire for the computer? just may be your problem.

cappy said:

....almost forgot...the balancer is wobbleing a little, at least 1/16 to 3/16" I feel it above 3000 rpm or so. Could that cause stalling, hesitation? (it is on the to do list)

Click to expand...

I cannot gaurantee that this is your total problem, however, I can't believe no one has pressed you on this issue yet.
They must have missed it buried in your post.

You have no baseline timing whatsoever if your balancer has slipped at all, and moved the timing marks.
I would at least confirm that the TDC mark on the balancer is truely at TDC before proceeding.
If you can't be sure of the timing on your car, you can't be sure of anything else at all until that is either fixed or proven a non-issue.

I would go ahead and put it to the top of your list if you can, because a slipped balancer that has only slipped a tiny bit (like it sounds your's has), can only go on to become a balancer that has slipped a great deal. Been there, done that... It is a serious mechanical failure, not a gremlin in the wiring or someting.

Since we are discussing baseline timing, did you time the car with the SPOUT removed?
Did you put the SPOUT back snug?
Have you triple checked the firing order vs the placement of the plug wires?
Did you clean the balancer with a wire brush and/or sandpaper to make sure you are using the timing marks that you think you are using?

*I had this issue just yesterday. Squinting at the balancer while the timing light flashed, trying to distinguish between diminished/blurry markings. I like to clean the balancer, then put a thin line of White Out on top of the TDC mark. If you don't have an advance capable timing light, then put your mark on the degree mark you want your timing set at. Don't do both, unless you mark them distinctly different, because it's hard to tell which is which with the car running. If I do it with more than one mark, I will mark the TDC with a full line across thewidth of the balancer, then only place a dot or very short mark at the other timing location I want to see.

Do a quick search, Ford had a plug wire routing problem with the HO firing order. There are a pair, or 2 pair of plug wires that are right next to each other, that Ford specified that you seperate to prevent intermittent crossfiring. In other words, if you route your plug wires from distributor to the plugs in the order in which the wires naturally fall, like you would any other engine, then you will end up with crossfire sooner or later. The deliberate routing of these specific wires with other wires placed between them is called for by Ford, and probably a good idea. I haven't seen many misses fixed with this method, but I have seen it once or twice, so there is something to it. Sorry I don't recall the cylinders that need their wires isolated from each other, but it should be easy info to find. If it works for you, great, if not, it didn't cost you anything to do.

Take both battery cables off and remove the battery and check the fusible links at the starter relay and check for cracked or broken wires. Also take a good look at the ground behind the battery clean/tighten that. I have seen mustangs surge and stall ..my own mustang too because of loose or bad ground wires/or broke wires. Bad grounds and fusible links will make the computer throw all kinds of codes and will make your car stall.