How can you make a basically stock block handle more than the 450HP mark?
- Thread starter Pokageek
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CManT1914
New Member
Are we talking rear wheel or flywheel horsepower? 450rwhp can be achieved on a bone stock bottom end pretty safely. My friend has a TFS kit with a Vortech pushing 440 to the wheels for nearly a year now.
Don 95Vert
Founding Member
Around 450 RWHP stock 302s become time bombs - some last years, some hours. Good internals are great, but the block itself cannot hold up. A girdle will hold the pieces together.
O. Thanks for the clarification guys. I always thought that was FWHP (not to start that argument). To me that means our blocks are good for 500 FWHP easy. How much more can you get out of a block with one of those girdles? I mean does that handle the main weak point?Thanks.
BlueOvalStangGT
Active Member
I think a girdle will do little to nothing from keeping a block from cracking, just hold the 2 peices together and hopefully save your internals from damage.
Davin
Founding Member
BlueOvalStangGT - what do you base that on? I will be building my 347 in a month and am debating whether or not to use a girdle.
around 500hp the stock block can become a problem. this however depends on many variables. proper maintenance, level of abuse, tune, proper balance of the rotating assembly, etc., all will have an affect on the longevity of the engine. some people will have immediate problems while others may go years without any trouble. because of what i have been through with my car though, im not leaving anything to chance. im going with a dart block and all 4340 forged internals. at this point, i want to rebuild it once and not have to worry about anything but keeping the oil fresh and the gas tank filled. just my .02
bjl95mustang
Founding Member
Some say gridles work some say they don't. When you have that much force trying to rock the caps it can only do so much. The main advantage of having a gridle is if your block breaks it holds everything togetor.
The best way to keep a block alive is to have the rotating assy balanced good to keep the rotating harmonics down and the stress off of the block. And you need a good tune.
The best way to keep a block alive is to have the rotating assy balanced good to keep the rotating harmonics down and the stress off of the block. And you need a good tune.
personally what can the girdle hurt? for the cost its at the very least a piece of mind. i have one on mine. i wouldn't put together an engine without it.
i had 400rwhp on a completely stock bottom end and no problem for over two years. now i have the new engine
i had 400rwhp on a completely stock bottom end and no problem for over two years. now i have the new engine
a50sn95
Founding Member
Davin said:
If you are buying expensive rotating parts, get the girdle. Otherwise, skip it.
I have no girdle on my 306....
YEAHLOH95
Founding Member
i agree its all in the tune i have made 455 to the wheels for 3 years and do not have a girdle i did not put on in beacaus emy pistons are the week link . the block is good for big power don't listen to the nay sayers its all in how you drive the car ,how often are you at 6000 rpm on the street ?????
mricci
Member
Like YEAHLOH95 said, i think the biggest part is how you drive it. A guy i knew was making 551 rwhp, and it lasted him one summer. This was from a s-trimed 306, that was revved past 6000 probably everytime it was driven. but if i was going to put any money into internals or build a high horspower motor i would just get an aftermarket block.
A girdle is an insurance policy. The stock internals on our year 302 is tricky. The weak link is the #5 and #8 cylinders. The stock rings are issue when using forced induction. Like mentioned by others the tune is what holds it all together. Other than that the little 302's do hold together pretty damn well. The 450 RWHP range is capable for years and years with proper maintenance and the right tune.
Davin said:
Don't waste the money. I wasn't gonna waste any money on a girdle on my 347 street car. I spent an extra $25 for arp main studs and have it line honed with the studs in place.
A safe tune and low rev's are what help a high powered blown h/c/i car.
94TURBO5 O
New Member
I agree with all these guys about the HP and longevity.
I've ran several power adder combos with lotsa boost and I'm still together after 168K.
My remedy for a budget is beat the hell out of it with no worries and have a $300 back up motor in storage . Motor lifts are cheap and when it breaks , a weekend worth of swapping and you're back on the road again.
Well that has been my plan and I now have 2 just sitting here ready to go. I paid $200 for my 91 long block and $400 for my 93 motor (both have forged pistons).
I've ran several power adder combos with lotsa boost and I'm still together after 168K.
My remedy for a budget is beat the hell out of it with no worries and have a $300 back up motor in storage . Motor lifts are cheap and when it breaks , a weekend worth of swapping and you're back on the road again.
Well that has been my plan and I now have 2 just sitting here ready to go. I paid $200 for my 91 long block and $400 for my 93 motor (both have forged pistons).
greenlantern
Member
BlueOvalStangGT
Active Member
YEAHLOH95
Founding Member
94TURBO5 O
New Member
Good answer and he's right.
I had forged pistons put in it. This the motor I was running the S-Trim on out of my 93 GT I sold. I however saved & rebuilt the motor and sold the blower to an SN member.
I had forged pistons put in it. This the motor I was running the S-Trim on out of my 93 GT I sold. I however saved & rebuilt the motor and sold the blower to an SN member.
I don't see the point in running a girdle on a stock shortblock, or a stock block for that matter.
If you are making big-time power, its about time to look for a new block. Not only that, but on stock shortblocks, who the hell wants to save stuff out of there? Cast cranks are very nice and very cheap in these days - as are rods and pistons.
My Dad builds motors where he works and they have the Cash = Half + half warrantee. As long as you paid for it, you get to keep both halfs of the motor when you break it.
Joe
If you are making big-time power, its about time to look for a new block. Not only that, but on stock shortblocks, who the hell wants to save stuff out of there? Cast cranks are very nice and very cheap in these days - as are rods and pistons.
My Dad builds motors where he works and they have the Cash = Half + half warrantee. As long as you paid for it, you get to keep both halfs of the motor when you break it.
Joe
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