Roush How much is too much?

sal07b · Oct 12, 2005

That 98 S351 on eBay got me thinking. We've talked a lot about Faleen's on this board. It seems that people are pretty much in agreement that Faleen's shouldn't be in the same class as authentic Saleen's. Now, my question is this: At what point does an extremely modified Saleen become basically the same as a Faleen? Hopefully I won't get flammed to hard for this question, but lets get serious here. People are taking authentic Saleen's and modifying them to the point where the only thing Saleen on the car are the plaques and the body kit. Everything from full-on coil over suspensions to 4v motor swaps is being done by many Saleen owners. Heck, I put an 03 crate motor in mine with cams and other goodies to upgrade the boat anchor they put in there stock, so I guess I'm just as guilty as the next guy (although there is only one way you can "look" and see what I did, I'll leave it up to you to see if you can figure it out).

I'm interested in everyone's opinion...

FASN8N · Oct 12, 2005

If the car was built and numbered by Saleen it will always be a Saleen. The level of modification will only narrow the field of potential future buyers depending on how appealing your car is.

SVT Saleen · Oct 12, 2005

FASN8N said:
If the car was built and numbered by Saleen it will always be a Saleen. The level of modification will only narrow the field of potential future buyers depending on how appealing your car is.

My thoughts exactly. Whether completely original or heavily modified, a Saleen is still a Saleen as long as it has the documentation to authenticate it. Fake Saleens are just modified Mustangs. A modified Saleen is still a Saleen.

sal07b · Oct 12, 2005

Yea, yea, I know it is still a Saleen. My point was that people are changing their Saleen's to the point where they barely represent what was originally built. Just figured I'd get people's thoughts. I modified mine, but the catch is that you really can't tell b/c it's basically all internal. When you start putting KB's, Whipple chargers, different interior's, suspension's, etc. it begins to be and/or look less and less like a Saleen. The funny thing is, in the future, the bone stock/all original ones are the ones that will be valuable...

Mstng2 · Oct 12, 2005

I think it's hilarious... that a "Saleen" is a "Saleen" because of a tag on the firewall and no other reason. So what we are saying is that if I take a Saleen and REMOVE EVERYTHING that Saleen Inc. put on it. Then, "Oh it's a Saleen because of the tag" Yet take A Mustang without a tag, PUT EVERYTHING Genuine Saleen parts on it, and "It's a FAKE"!!!

SVT Saleen · Oct 12, 2005

Mstng2 said:
I think it's hilarious... that a "Saleen" is a "Saleen" because of a tag on the firewall and no other reason. So what we are saying is that if I take a Saleen and REMOVE EVERYTHING that Saleen Inc. put on it. Then, "Oh it's a Saleen because of the tag" Yet take A Mustang without a tag, PUT EVERYTHING Genuine Saleen parts on it, and "It's a FAKE"!!!

Well you're certainly making a positive impression upon those of us who own genuine Saleens.

Whatever euphemism you want to use; e.g. clone, replica, tribute, etc. to describe a fake Saleen, at the end of the day it's only a modified Mustang & hence it's still a fake.

I'm sure those owners of genuine Shelby Mustangs also appreciate having their vehicles denigrated by owners of fake Shelbys as nothing more than a Mustang with a firewall tag...

Friedchicken · Oct 12, 2005

You can laugh at the firewall tag if you like, but you are looking at the car differently than those that have an appreciation for branding. People aren't buying Saleen cars for their performance generally, cause you can put a package together that can outperform a Saleen by modifying a run-of-the-mill mustang for less. Keep in mind that as a manufacturer, they have to adhere to standards that limits them to some extent on the mods they will do to make it a Saleen.

However, if you want to own something that is limited in production, has some history behind it, represents power out-of-the-box and has intrinsic value because it is registered through Saleen, then you buy the factory Saleen.

Those that are modding the crap out of them probably care less about respecting the resale value unless they can return the car to stock before they sell it. As it stands now, a used Saleen will always get more money than a modded Mustang, even if every part was identical.

Even the insurance industry recognizes the difference between serialized and cloned. Look at the AC cobra clones and the authentic ones. You laughing at those also as they sit on auction for huge $$$?

footnfan · Oct 13, 2005

SAAC theory

SVT Saleen said:
Well you're certainly making a positive impression upon those of us who own genuine Saleens.

Whatever euphemism you want to use; e.g. clone, replica, tribute, etc. to describe a fake Saleen, at the end of the day it's only a modified Mustang & hence it's still a fake.

I'm sure those owners of genuine Shelby Mustangs also appreciate having their vehicles denigrated by owners of fake Shelbys as nothing more than a Mustang with a firewall tag...

I take my [philosophy from SAAC ( The Shelby Club) that if a Shelby Mustang contains the ford VIN numbers and the Shelby numbers it is a Shelby. Now, it needs to have both the generally visible numbers and the ones less evident. That is why you see rolling hulks ( shelby's) selling on e bay for ....high prices.

Personally, I have a bone stock '98 car and a highly modified ( but mods are virtually invisible) 95 car. Both are fun.....but in different ways.

I think that if mustang is an original saleen, it will always be a saleen no matter how modified. I might want to own it, but it is still a saleen.

I'll step down now!

dan

Mstng2 · Oct 13, 2005

SVT Saleen said:
Well you're certainly making a positive impression upon those of us who own genuine Saleens.

Sorry SVT, and anyone else on the list, no offense. I ment my comments in referance to the prior post, that mentioned no matter how much you ruin a true Saleen etc... I just find the whole fact that Saleen sold/sells their parts to the general public creating this situation humoreous.

Head Paneer · Oct 13, 2005

I think a Saleen should always be considered a Saleen, no matter how much someone alters it. If it is modified to any extent, then it becomes a less-pure Saleen. Some are more diluted than others. For some people, like me, that may not necessarily be a bad thing. I buy cars to drive them (even though the S281 still has less than 13,000 miles) and tinker with them. While I genuinely appreciate an original condition car, such as Marcus’ S351 (you have to see it in person ), it is not the type of car for me.

I have modified my car. 95+% of the car can be “restored” but it will never be “original condition” again since the subframes are welded on and there are holes in the floor pan for the drive shaft safety loop. It is no longer a pure specimen but it is still a Saleen in my book.

Kudos to those who can keep their hands of a car except to maintain and dust. Double Kudos those who seek out, acquire and preserve the truly rare Saleen examples out there. Guys like me just make your quest more challenging and rewarding.

jeffnoel · Oct 13, 2005

OK, I'm next up for flaming. But why spend the money on a Saleen only to modify it, when you can build a better Mustang cheaper?

SSS281 · Oct 14, 2005

ill answer that one. i modified a 96 replica down to every detail (except the plaques and numbers) and it was much faster than a stock s281...but the thing always on the back of my mind was that it was fake. and i dreaded the first question everyone always asks "is it real?" its almost like someone will approach the car in awe but as soon as you say no, the appreciation for it vanishes. not that i build a car for what others think; but it was still very unrewarding. so now, as i modify another mustang i started with a real one.

Head Paneer · Oct 14, 2005

jeffnoel said:
OK, I'm next up for flaming. But why spend the money on a Saleen only to modify it, when you can build a better Mustang cheaper?

I have very little time to play with cars anymore. When I purchased the S281 back in late ’99, I had no plans to do anything to it. At that time, it was a perfect turn-key for me. So I have modded the car, very slowly over almost six years. Buying a Saleen gave me a big head start. If I did the same mods to a GT, then I would basically have a stock bodied, stock suspended Mustang with chassis bracing, good front brakes, a pretty dash and engine and no blower. It is not so much a matter of having the money but having the time (since I do almost all mods myself).

Acheron315 · Oct 14, 2005

My opinion is similar to Head Paneer's.
When I bought my Saleen, I wanted something that looked great and had good power that I could further modify for excellent handling. I haven't done too much besides very basic boltons for the engine performance, but have replaced a ton of the ford suspension. The only Saleen parts I took off were the springs.

marcus95 · Oct 14, 2005

Head Paneer said:
I think a Saleen should always be considered a Saleen, no matter how much someone alters it. If it is modified to any extent, then it becomes a less-pure Saleen. Some are more diluted than others. For some people, like me, that may not necessarily be a bad thing. I buy cars to drive them (even though the S281 still has less than 13,000 miles) and tinker with them. While I genuinely appreciate an original condition car, such as Marcus’ S351 (you have to see it in person ), it is not the type of car for me.

I have modified my car. 95+% of the car can be “restored” but it will never be “original condition” again since the subframes are welded on and there are holes in the floor pan for the drive shaft safety loop. It is no longer a pure specimen but it is still a Saleen in my book.

Kudos to those who can keep their hands of a car except to maintain and dust. Double Kudos those who seek out, acquire and preserve the truly rare Saleen examples out there. Guys like me just make your quest more challenging and rewarding.

Thanks Dennis.

Yes, I am one of those asses who doesn't drive thier car enough.

Quazimodo · Oct 15, 2005

If you have a real Saleen No matter what you do to it it will always be a Saleen. But if you have just a regular run of the mill GT or Cobra no matter how much money you put into it it will NEVER be a real Saleen. I don't call them Faleen's I call them wanna be's. What gets me mad is that some owners call them GT Saleens. NO, its just a GT and it'll never will be a Saleen.
I would'nt be afraid to mod a real one though. My '88 #207 has a tubular K member,coil overs, roll cage, anti roll bar welded in, C4 tranny,aftermarkert gauges screwed into the dash,weld in subframe connectors, And I even had to trim the ground effects around the rear wheel well to make clearence for the 28x 10.5 M/T's and is equiped with a Novi 2000 blown 310 A4 motor pushing it to mid 9's@146mph. Some people say I'm crazy for doing that. But in my 10 years of racing I found out that really fast authentic Saleens are a rarity and they really stand out at the track unlike the GT's and LX's or even cobra's which just about everyone else is racing with. When I tell people to find me at the track. I just tell them to look for the white 9 second fox body saleen. Trust me they have no problem finding me.
heres some new pics of it to see for yourself- http://www.cardomain.com/ride/762099

jeffnoel · Oct 15, 2005

So is it just me or do some Saleen owners come across as being better than other Mustang owners?

Flame on...

Quazimodo · Oct 15, 2005

jeffnoel said:
So is it just me or do some Saleen owners come across as being better than other Mustang owners?

Flame on...

Saleens are better than regular mustangs

jeffnoel · Oct 15, 2005

Quazimodo said:
Saleens are better than regular mustangs

Maybe, but I was talking about the owners thinking their better.

88FoxSaleen · Oct 15, 2005

jeffnoel hits on a strong point! like said before, no offense to real Saleen owners but i built what you bought & that irritates some of you. i have the knowledge & knowhow to do what most cannot with these cars. you have big pockets, i have dirt under my fingernails! i do understand some of you do your own work to your cars so dont get me wrong. remember, Ford built your car first & built mustangs w/ 4 & 6 cylinders in these same chasis so they arent too exotic if you know what i mean (Ferrari, Porche). guys i am sorry but a Saleen is a modified mustang, just like my Saleen repo. lets not get big heads. i dont mean any disrespect. just wanted to speak up on an exhausted issue. none of my friends with real Saleens have this kind of attitude twards repos/clones!

Jay

Roush How much is too much?

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