How much $$

Pokageek said:

I don't want to know..let me think..prolly with labor and all, DONE RIGHT with supporting mods.. $11k

u forgot supporting mods to put the power to the pavement..and ..trans?

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These are very important, and very expensive!

I like his idea of blown 306. Build it with good internals and then upgrade to better heads down the road! Then you have something a little different than most that has incredible potential!!

ford302redneck said:

Im thinking of doing a mild 306. Stock heads/intake. And a blower cam.

Then get intake and supercharger.

Im researching how cheap I can build a forged piston rebuild now.

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You don't want the stock heads. a 306 and a blower is a great idea, but I feel if any mod should be done last if separate at all, it's the cam.

I float valves at 5,600 and I make peak torque at ~3,500 or so, and then it drops off. My optimal shift point is somewhere around 5,000, so a set of heads and an intake that could rev and deliver to 6,500 would be of much more benefit. That, and I've heard several say the stocker is a decent blower cam... but of course you'd stand to gain from the aftermarket.

Of course you can use the stockers (as I do), but it's not very efficient.

EDIT: If you want to see my dyno sheet, check out the stickied thread in talk.

Another thing to cut cost would be picking up a used set of injectors and a MAF. Also pushrods will probably cost a little more than that and gaskets will also wind up costing a little more. Im guessing all fluids and that sort of stuff are in the little stuff category.

final5-0 said:

If you are going all motor the MSD is not really needed
and
You can rig up a CAI for less than 25 bux

I'd take a pass on that afpr as well since you'll need a custom tune

I mean ... I'd think you would not try and tune that kind of combo with just
fuel pressure adjustments and dizzy twisting

Grady

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money well saved

as is all the replies you receieved

blown 306 h/c/i/ you will probably spend ass load of money as well as a serious tune ! ignition will may need replacing when going blown

should make more power than a 331 with 185 ,cam etc

i have not seen stock cranks ,rods, not handle good amount of power 400hp +or so ,if in good condition , change rod bolts arp, good bearings etc

if i was doin machine work to cylinders
pistons i would replace regardless ,blower later if your thinking about it

n/a 331 ? unless going turbo/blown spec engine build?
i would go 347 imo

not all that much more $

If I am talking about a Street Car

If I am talking about a reasonable ... not bare bones ... budget

If I am talking about using an OEM block

If I am talking about going blown ... KB or Centri

If I am talking about starting with OEM heads, cam, & intake

I gotta tell ya

I just can't help it
My common sense tells me these two basic KEY things :Word:

1) 450rwhp is just about the limit of that OEM block
and
For a weekend toy Street Car ... that is plenty anyway

2) Peeps have thrown enough boost to split the block on ALL oem stuff

I say the most efficient way to go about this is to ... Keep It Simple

You don't need to turn mega high rpm
You don't need to have mega dollar parts
You don't need to produce mega high boost

I've come to think along these lines ......

Get you some Aluminum heads ... Don't have to be high dollar heads
They've got thicker decks than OEM iron heads which helps with boost
so they don't lift and flex as much ... AND ... flow better too!

Get you an aftermarket ignition for spark blow out

Get you a adequate fuel system ... Not talking fmu here

Get a tune ... Not talking mechanical stuff such as boost retard here
that will keep fuel & spark optimum for cruising around town and WOT

In a nutshell ... Here is what I believe you would end up with by using
the above methods

OEM block and the pan has never been removed
No high dollar forged anything
No need for high rpm
Reasonable boost

As for the supporting parts like headers, intake and such ........
Heck Fire ... What ever you can find around locally that is used but still
in good shape would work just fine.

Come On Now ... We're using the blower to CRAM in the air & fuel :Word:

This means unlike a NA combo ... Things don't have to be all that critical

Here is the ... Key Ingredient ... to cooking up
my reasonably low budget ... blown combo ... horsepower feast

The Tune

It will keep the hyper pistons and non forged internals in check
and
Of course ... YOU ... have to keep the rpm's reasonable

Now ... for those of you who want more
Sure ... it can be done

But why do all that kind of thing with an OEM block
I mean ... Thats like putting Gold Plated wheels on a beat up Volksbug

Again my friends ... What little common sense I got just tells me ....
I shouldn't throw good money towards inefficient methods

Lastly ... You can't just focus on the motor alone

Remember ... we are now cranking out around 450 rwhp

The rest of the car has got to be able to deal with that kind of power :Word:

But ... I won't go into all that in this post

Just some things I've come to see over the years of watching peeps on
these boards and what all they have experienced

Grady

Yep, EXCELLENT post Grady! You do not necessarily need FORGED this and that! BUT you can always do it down the line for more $$ if you so please. YES Hyper pistons will be FINE with a GOOD tune.

I was told the entire time I had my car (8 years now) that I couldn't use nitrous because of the hyper pistons. I sprayed that stock engine for 6.5 years and when the rings finally wore down enough, I pulled it out. Before I would sell it to a friend, I had to pop a head off to make sure I wasn't screwing him. The pistons were fine. Couldn't even tell nitrous had been run through the engine. Just listen to your engine. If you hear detonation of any kind. Shut it down. The worst I ever did on the bottle was burn one electrode on a plug. Only because my buddy's dad set my timing higher than he told me did. So I didn't up the fuel pressure enough to compensate for it.

gcomfx.com said:

I was told the entire time I had my car (8 years now) that I couldn't use nitrous because of the hyper pistons. I sprayed that stock engine for 6.5 years and when the rings finally wore down enough, I pulled it out. Before I would sell it to a friend, I had to pop a head off to make sure I wasn't screwing him. The pistons were fine. Couldn't even tell nitrous had been run through the engine. Just listen to your engine. If you hear detonation of any kind. Shut it down. The worst I ever did on the bottle was burn one electrode on a plug. Only because my buddy's dad set my timing higher than he told me did. So I didn't up the fuel pressure enough to compensate for it.

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Good info here

It is hard to argue against a man with an experience :Word:

Grady

ford302redneck said:

Basically my goal after everything is mid/high 11s on slicks.

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Well Now

Since you've put it .............. that way

You don't need a pa of ANY kind to accomplish that

As a matter of fact

You can get that done with less than 300 NA horses to the wheels

Grady

Yes, but he will have to launch it perfectly every time or he will be in the 13's with the slightest mistake. ... you realize that is the kind of build you are talking about. Not that there is anything wrong with that..just not my preference.

Meaning, I want a car that can do 11's on street tires with 3.27 gears and if I make a slight mistake.. I end up in the mid 12's not waay out in high e.t. land. The car grady is talking about will be made for track basically and prolly not have a ton of low end.

Pokageek said:

Yes, but he will have to launch it perfectly every time or he will be in the 13's with the slightest mistake. ... you realize that is the kind of build you are talking about. Not that there is anything wrong with that..just not my preference.

Meaning, I want a car that can do 11's on street tires with 3.27 gears and if I make a slight mistake.. I end up in the mid 12's not waay out in high e.t. land. The car grady is talking about will be made for track basically and prolly not have a ton of low end.

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You hit the nail squarely on the head here Keith

I just don't care for using et as a measurement of success for a Street Car

That last sentence you said there Keith is mostly true ............
but
It don't have to be

Look at the combos similar to mine
and
You see they have pretty good low low end curves

Now ... Look at Paul Riva's Vert ... He was right at 11.99 for an et

See ... This shows how ALL things need to be considered

I know these things for a fact about my car

Its close enough to Paul's car to be capable of doing the same
Its even lighter than Paul's car
yada yada yada

Now ... All that don't make a hill of beans to me

I did NOT build my 95GT to go down the 1320
but
It is kind of an indicator of what it ... could ... do

Of course ... it goes without saying
duplication of parts to sixty foot and driver ability would be a must

The area under the curve should not be underestimated as a benefit
when making an assault on the 1320 as well

Anyway ... I'm with you Keith

For my cruise around town car .........

I wanna make some power :Word:
and
I want it all up and down the power band

Not just peak and up top

Grady

final5-0 said:

You hit the nail squarely on the head here Keith

I just don't care for using et as a measurement of success for a Street Car

That last sentence you said there Keith is mostly true ............
but
It don't have to be

Look at the combos similar to mine
and
You see they have pretty good low low end curves

Now ... Look at Paul Riva's Vert ... He was right at 11.99 for an et

See ... This shows how ALL things need to be considered

I know these things for a fact about my car

Its close enough to Paul's car to be capable of doing the same
Its even lighter than Paul's car
yada yada yada

Now ... All that don't make a hill of beans to me

I did NOT build my 95GT to go down the 1320
but
It is kind of an indicator of what it ... could ... do

Of course ... it goes without saying
duplication of parts to sixty foot and driver ability would be a must

The area under the curve should not be underestimated as a benefit
when making an assault on the 1320 as well

Anyway ... I'm with you Keith

For my cruise around town car .........

I wanna make some power :Word:
and
I want it all up and down the power band

Not just peak and up top

Grady

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Yep, you and I are the same inthis department...but I had to experience it to understand that 2 cars making 300rwhp are not alike! Whether it be 302 vs a 347 or a 4cyl vs a 302..it's just not the same and sometimes you don't relaize your preference until you already spent your money. I though my gt with a 290rwhp would feel more powerful than my lt1 z28 simply because it had more upper rpm hp. NONONONONO. I was hugely disappointed.

Pokageek said:

Yep, you and I are the same inthis department...but I had to experience it to understand that 2 cars making 300rwhp are not alike! Whether it be 302 vs a 347 or a 4cyl vs a 302..it's just not the same and sometimes you don't relaize your preference until you already spent your money. I though my gt with a 290rwhp would feel more powerful than my lt1 z28 simply because it had more upper rpm hp. NONONONONO. I was hugely disappointed.

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Exactly

I went through all that when I was a kid in high school

We used to sneek our race car out on Fri & Sat nights

With the big ole cam and tunnel ram intake .......
It was such a bow wow dog driving it around on the street :Word:

Now... when you did a full on ... dump the clutch ... kinda thing

Grady