How strong are factory rods?

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Red2000GT

Founding Member

Sep 10, 2000

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Regina,Sask.Canada

Aug 22, 2003

#1

• Aug 22, 2003

• #1

I'm about to order the replacement parts for my engine rebuild. I know the pistons are crap and I used to think the rods were junk too but lately I"ve talked to a few people and seen some things that might change my mind. For example: DSS uses race prepped factory rods on their 4.6's up to 750 hp. Now I'm never going to approach 750 hp with my motor but it may see as high as 500-550 with the nitrous(someday). Considering the price of forged rods up here in Canada(over $1100 with taxes) if I could get away without them,that's a big chunk of cash I can spend on something else. Does anybody have any specific ideas? I need solid info here,not just opinions.

 

Screwed2V

New Member

Aug 6, 2003

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Misery

Aug 22, 2003

#2

• Aug 22, 2003

• #2

I would be more worried about the rods than the pistons. If your'e going to spend that kind of money anyway you might as well do it right. I haven't spoken to a tuner/engine builder yet that feels comfortable with using stock anything, other than the crank, in a high hp 2v application.

 

R

Red2000GT

Founding Member

Sep 10, 2000

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Regina,Sask.Canada

Aug 22, 2003

#3

• Aug 22, 2003

• #3

I always thought the pistons were slightly weaker than the rods (by about 25-50hp capability). But that's why I'm asking.

 

0

007

Founding Member

Jan 29, 2002

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69

Broke

Aug 22, 2003

#4

• Aug 22, 2003

• #4

The stock rods are not too strong. Swap em. They are hypereurytyueruer (whatever) and just look at em next to some decent aftermarket forged rods like Manleys.

 

mrvax

Stay thirsty my friends

Founding Member

Nov 29, 1999

5,225

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79

SN Moderator: Orlando, Fl.

Aug 22, 2003

#5

• Aug 22, 2003

• #5

Rods and pistons have been known to let go on these motors. Get the forged ones. Also get a good oil pump. Keep your stock crank, they are pretty stout.

Shop around and you will get some decent prices.

 

JohnnyLangton

Founding Member

Apr 30, 2002

418

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Texas

Aug 23, 2003

#6

• Aug 23, 2003

• #6

'00 GT longblock...less than 20K miles
Stock rods,forged pistons,Vortech S-trim,perfect tune,under 400 hp.
You make up your mind...

JL

 

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GTblack_00

New Member

Mar 23, 2003

494

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Tampa Bay Area, FL

Aug 23, 2003

#7

• Aug 23, 2003

• #7

Well, I was going to say hmmm.........WHO LIED TO YOU????

Stock rods are crappy cast powdered unknown alloy mystery metal,
I would trust the crappy pistons way more than the crappy rods they give us. I give factory equipment 350rwhp DD maybe. Other than that, you need forged internals, crank can be an exception.

I havent heard nice things about DSS.


Josh.

 

4

4.6 EATIN GM'S

New Member

Sep 9, 2002

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CALI, BAY AREA

Aug 24, 2003

#8

• Aug 24, 2003

• #8

i wouldnt trust those rods more then 300 to 325

 

R

Red2000GT

Founding Member

Sep 10, 2000

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Regina,Sask.Canada

Aug 24, 2003

#9

• Aug 24, 2003

• #9

Forged Probe H-beam rods and Probe race pistons have been orderd!

Thanks!

 

wjfawb0

Founding Member

Jun 7, 2002

929

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Georgetown, KY

Aug 24, 2003

#10

• Aug 24, 2003

• #10

Don't tell all the guys making 350+ rwhp with the Steeda tune that they need to replace their rods. You'd make several hundred people very upset. Of course anyone making 350+rwhp is better off with aftermarket forged pieces.

I hope to make around 400rwhp with the stock block on my GT with the Steeda tune (hopefully next month). Before I go any further with porting and polishing and other internal mods to the motor, I'll get a forged shortblock. That is probably years down the road unless I win the lottery.

-wjfawb0

 

FastRedPonyCar

Founding Member

Apr 7, 2002

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39

I pee sitting down...or do I?

Aug 24, 2003

#11

• Aug 24, 2003

• #11

Yeah doesn't steeda use all factory internals for the Q400?

Only saleen forges stuff in the S281-E i think.

 

Screwed2V

New Member

Aug 6, 2003

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Misery

Aug 24, 2003

#12

• Aug 24, 2003

• #12

I run almost 400 rwhp on stock internals and have for 5500 miles now. My tuner feels comfortable running 425 or more in some cases rwhp. It's all in the tune. The Q400 uses stock internals and I believe even the Q400 Deluxe (425 rwhp) uses stock stuff. One thing to remember is that a motor can let go at 300 rwhp just like it can at 400 rwhp.

 

SmithAtlanta

Founding Member

Dec 27, 2001

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Roswell, GA

Aug 24, 2003

#13

• Aug 24, 2003

• #13

wjfawb0 said:

Don't tell all the guys making 350+ rwhp with the Steeda tune that they need to replace their rods. You'd make several hundred people very upset. Of course anyone making 350+rwhp is better off with aftermarket forged pieces.

I hope to make around 400rwhp with the stock block on my GT with the Steeda tune (hopefully next month). Before I go any further with porting and polishing and other internal mods to the motor, I'll get a forged shortblock. That is probably years down the road unless I win the lottery.

-wjfawb0

Click to expand...

Any one that puts any type of power adder on their car needs to prepare for these possibilities. Even with a perfect tune things can break or wear out. I hope it doesn't but I know it could.... I started a rebuild fund when I bought the charger(although I dipped into it to get an intercooler).

 

K

knowledge

Founding Member

Jan 9, 2002

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albany,ny

Aug 24, 2003

#14

• Aug 24, 2003

• #14

rods and pistons are garbage. My engine went after only 9000 miles at 10psi with a aftercooler. Go the whole 9 yards pistons wrist pins and rods while your at it a cobra crank.

 

P

PSKSAM2

Founding Member

Feb 13, 2002

771

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NJ

Aug 24, 2003

#15

• Aug 24, 2003

• #15

007 said:

The stock rods are not too strong. Swap em. They are hypereurytyueruer (whatever) and just look at em next to some decent aftermarket forged rods like Manleys.

Click to expand...

Could you mean hypereutectoid?

Plain carbon steel which contains .8% carbon is called eutectoid. Less than .8% is hypoeutectoid and more than .8% is hypereutectoid.

Smith, William F. Materials Science and Engineering. Third edition, 1999. p488

 

M

md1198p

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Dec 22, 2002

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Aug 24, 2003

#16

• Aug 24, 2003

• #16

approx how much would a forged rebuild cost? parts and labor?

 

4

4.6 EATIN GM'S

New Member

Sep 9, 2002

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CALI, BAY AREA

Aug 25, 2003

#17

• Aug 25, 2003

• #17

if i can find my paper work ill put it in this thread on how much it cost in parts on forged internals.its not too expensive,while ur in there u should put a cobra steel crank,h beam rods,forged pistons,arp hardware,shm timing chain adjusters,7 qaurt oil pan and other misc. stuff.
this might be kind of pricey but its well worth it in the long run.
but this is just my .02 cents

 

Snydaleid

Member

Mar 26, 2003

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Moscow, ID

Aug 25, 2003

#18

• Aug 25, 2003

• #18

The stock rods look pretty strong to me!

 

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STANGateURlilSS

Founding Member

May 2, 2002

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USA & SANDBOX

Jan 8, 2004

#19

• Jan 8, 2004

• #19

not to change the subject... but i to have heard bad things about d.s.s. and had to do a rebuild on a few after just a few hundred miles.. there tolerances are all over the place..

back on subject.

hell stock rods and pistons have let go on non power adder motors.. with bolt-ons.. of course when adding a power adder it is always better to run forged internals.

 

mity2

I like Pro3 and all I got was this crappy CT.

Jul 24, 2003

2,872

3

48

StateCollege PA

Jan 8, 2004

#20

• Jan 8, 2004

• #20

get forged rod. if your gonna compleately rebuild it, why take chance? it is cheaper to do it now, than later ya know. I rebuild my old MR2 befor, and just becouse it was with in spec, I reused rod, and replaced everything else. and look at the pic below to see what happened.