How to select the right header...

The 4 into 2 into 1 design did not have a "collector" as such, but was great on a street racer because it created more torque in the mid range, but suffered a little at the top end. Many of the Super Stocks in the early 1950's used these type headers. Dyno Don Nicholson used the Tri-Y design on his first 409 (1961), but he wanted even more power and finally used a Mid Length Header which became known as a 4 into 1 design. Yes, Dyno Don used a Mid Length Header on his 1961 Chevy and also on his '62 409, too.

Don may have been one of the first to use the Mid Length header for all out racing, but others soon followed. Blair's 426 S/S Hemi Plymouth used them too, and actually had top time at one of the NHRA National Events in 1964.

The difference today between the Mid Length Header and the Long Tube header is the length of the primaries, no more and no less. To achieve maximum power at a specific RPM, the primaries needed to be a certain length. Anything more or less would lose that maximum power, at that specific RPM. But most cars want power over their entire RPM band, which means that the exact "perfect" length of the primaries can never be determined. So, most header companies just use some kind of an average, like between 30" to maybe 35", and let the chips fall where they may. For your typical street racer or bracket racer, it really is not the much of an issue, and if you are running the exhaust through a full muffler and tail pipe system, it most like doesn't matter at all. Don't make the length of the primaries a big issue, just make the headers clean, with a limited number of bends, keep the radius from being too tight, and go have some fun, just like those first headers we used on the flathead Ford many years ago...

I'm old school too, but the typical long tube header is not as old as most folks think. There were a lot of different types of headers being made in the 1950's, 1960's and even in the 1970's that were not the regular 4 into 1 style long tube header. And they all seemed to work. You asked what I would select between a short or a long tube header for a street car. Between those two selections I would choose the long tube. I have never been a proponent of the "shorty" header design, and it has very little to do with the length of the primary. For a street car or even a street/strip car, I don't think that the length of the primaries makes much difference when running a full exhaust system. I agree with you regarding torque being important for a hot street runner, but not "low end torque". If we wanted low end torque, we would be running the Caterpillar 3126 diesel engine, designed for medium size trucks, 440 cubic inches with 300 HP at 2,200 RPM. What we want is strong "mid-range torque", 2,800 through 6,000 RPM. And in that range, there is not much difference between a "mid-length" header and a "long tube" header. The shorty header design is falling off fast past 5,000 RPM, whereas our mid-length keeps on pulling, and I chalk that up to the difference in collector design between our mid-length and the standard shorty design. So, back to your original question, my selection for a 300+ HP street car between the long tube and a shorty, I would go with the long tube. My selection between a long tube and our mid-length, I would go with the mid-length. Less money, easier to install, and the difference in HP is negligible...

Here is a typical "shorty" design:

Here is our Mid-Length design. See the difference?

The connection from the "Shorty" headers to the OEM style H-Pipe eliminates the collector entirely, and just uses the ball & socket assembly to make the connection. This means there are two horsepower robbing issues at hand. First, there is no collector and second, the B&S itself is a restriction. Any header that does not have a collector is a crappy header in my opinion, which is the primary issue I have with Shorty headers. Yes, the collectors we use on our Mid Length Header is the same collector we use on the long tube headers.

Personally, I would not accept the B&S connectors on any part of my exhaust system.

As far as torque, what you want is to have a reasonable amount of torque spread out over your entire operating range. An all out race car can give up torque below 5,000 RPM because they leave the line at 5,000 RPM and never fall below 6,000 RPM between shifts going down the track. A street car needs torque below 3,000 RPM, and to extend up to at least to 6,000 RPM. Regardless of all that, concern yourself with making more horsepower and don't worry about the torque, it increases as the horsepower increases. There are a lot of things that contribute to making more torque and/or moving the torque curve up or down the RPM band, and headers are the least of those things.

Yes, many fender-well headers have primaries as long as long tube headers, however, the headers on Dyno Don's Chevy are actually quite a bit shorter than you think. Technically, they are fender-well headers but they do have pretty short primaries.

Steve Bovan's '64 Plymouth is a little different, since it did not have a frame (like the Chevy did), the primaries are actually much shorter than had he ran a long tube header.

General, your thoughts are not looneytoons at all. In simple terms, if you want more horsepower, make more torque, or to put it another way, if you want more torque, make more horsepower. Let's say that you put your engine on a dyno to find out how much horsepower it makes. The interesting thing is that a dyno does not measure horsepower, it only measures torque. From that torque measurement, a computer using an algorithm tells you how much horsepower you made.

Let's go back to the basics for a minute and define what we are talking about.

Energy is the capacity for doing work. In this instance, engines perform the work formerly done by horses.

Work is the result of a force acting over some distance. The U.S. measurement unit for work (and also energy) is foot-pounds.

Torque is a rotating force produced by an engine’s crankshaft. The more torque an engine produces, the greater its ability to perform work. The measurement is the same as work, but slightly different. Since torque is a vector (acting in a certain direction), it’s quantified by the units pound-feet and newton-meters.
Of course, there’s always an exception. In this case the distinction is static torque, the kind you apply with a wrench to tighten head bolts. To avoid confusion, the units for static torque are traditionally foot-pounds.

Power is how rapidly work is accomplished. Eighteenth-century Scottish inventor James Watt gave us this handy equivalency: one horsepower is the power required to lift 33,000 pounds exactly one foot in one minute.
Torque is the capacity to do work, while power is how quickly some strenuous task can be accomplished. In other words, power is the rate of completing work (or applying torque) in a given amount of time. Mathematically, horsepower equals torque multiplied by rpm divided by 5252 (a constant). So, to make more power an engine needs to generate more torque, operate at higher rpm, or both.

The next time you look at a dyno sheet (magazines that do dyno tests print the sheet out) so we can see how much torque and how much horsepower there is at given rpm's. Look at this typical dyno sheet. The blue line is the torque, the green line is the horsepower, and the RPM's are shown at the bottom of the chart. Notice that the lines cross at exactly 5,252 RPM. You will see this on every dyno sheet that you ever read. The blue line (the torque) is the only thing that the dyno measures, the green line (the HP) is extrapolated from the torque readings and the RPM. I have never seen a dyno sheet in which the torque is not higher than the HP number under 5,252 RPM, or lower than the HP number above 5,252 RPM. So, relative to the diameter of the primary tubes on headers (1 5/8" or 1 3/4" or 1 7/8", etc.) or the length of the primary tubes, not much is going to affect the torque on your engine, only the potential horsepower power of your engine. More power gives you more torque, because more torque gives you more power. We better stop now, because it's not quite 7:30 AM where I am and I'm already thinking about a double scotch (no ice please)...

Hey, does anyone know how to become an advertiser on this site? I have a small Vendor ad (300 x 95) ready to go. I have tried to make contact with someone (anyone) on the "contact" page at least three times and I can't get anyone to take my money or to get back to me.

geoklass@yahoo.com or (909) 552-3690

George Klass
RCI Custom Headers

Thank you sir, I believe it worked. They were able to take the money and will put up my ad...

I thought you might be interested on how are headers are manufactured. First, you start with the flange. All of our flanges are made from 5/16" steel and are designed for each specific cylinder head. Many aftermarket heads these days have optional flange bolt patterns. Some are wider than the stock head (3" center to center is typical) and some use a diagonal pattern. The stock Ford small block style head use a 2" center to center bolt pattern, which limits the primary tube size.

RCI CUSTOM HEADERS - (909) 552-3690 - geoklass@yahoo.com

Did someone say flanges? Our flanges are designed so as not to interfere with either the spark plugs or the spark plug socket needed to install or remove the spark plug (something that many header companies seem to forget about).

RCI CUSTOM HEADERS - (909) 552-3690 - geoklass@yahoo.com

RCI uses pre-formed Mandrel bent U-Bends or J-Bends exclusively. We never use a "press bent" tube bender, the die used to form the bend tends to put a crease or a "dent" on the inside of the radius.

RCI CUSTOM HEADERS - (909) 552-3690 - geoklass@yahoo.com

The flange is bolted onto the steel fixture.

RCI CUSTOM HEADERS - (909) 552-3690 - geoklass@yahoo.com

The primary tubes are cut and fitted one at a time, pieced together and clamped onto the "saddle" to be tacked and welded. The original header for each combination is fabricated using at least 2" primaries (if possible). Then the fixture is made from that header. This then allows us to lay smaller diameter tubing if we want (1 7/8" or 1 3/4") onto the saddles. It's kind of like, if the 2" header will fit and clear everything, we know for sure that the smaller size primaries will also fit and clear everything.

RCI CUSTOM HEADERS - (909) 552-3690 - geoklass@yahoo.com