Fwiw, I have no intention to argue with anyone and I'm only following up in this thread because I love this stuff. Building, driving, and racing Mustangs is a passion of mine. If any of my info benefits anyone, great! If anyone disagrees with what I post. That's okay too. No e-thuggery here.
Not to step on anyones toes but there is no way that car will approach 120mph in the 1/4 mile with only a 125 shot of nitrous.Even adding 100 rwhp will not put that car at 120mph. I would say your mph should be in the 105-109 ish on a good tune and well setup(with the nitrous spraying), without nitrous your looking at 97 or so most likely.
My '89 hatch ran 103.70 with the stock 302. I put the same engine/trans/rear-end in my '93 notch and it ran 106mph.
Keep in mind, I said it should
"approach 120mph" and by that I meant 118 maybe? I can tell you this: I put 12psi of boost on this same engine/trans/rear-end combo and ran 122.4mph in my '89 hatch. A legit 125-shot (NX) should be in the same neighborhood. And that's not conjecture. I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen others do with similar combos. At this point, just about everything has been tried on the Foxes.
I agree, 120mph is way off. Takes about 400rwhp to get 120mph, and my old 100 shot only produced somewhere in the 75rwhp range so i wouldn't think that 125 would be all that much more.
I eventually dynoed my 302 combo when I installed it in the '93 notch. It made 236rwhp on a load bearing dyno. So if a legit 125-shot made 361rwhp, 118/120 is not out of the question for a chassis that works. I'm a ProCharger guy, so all I can say about that is that I'm sure the 125-shot would make more torque than my 122mph ProCharger combo did, but not as much hp.
Did you actually read that article Nik? He barely squeaked into the 12's and put out plenty of cash and did away with all kinds of amenities to do it. Not to mention he had to run the car within and inch of it's life to do it.
Nothing about that read sounded simple.
No a/c, power steering, or smog equipment. No swaybar, removal of various front end bracketry (safety concern). Stripped interior components, etc.
Just look at what he stripped out of the car!?!
He then added an electric fan, battery relocation kit, aftermarket CAI with MAF meter, O/R mid pipe and dumped exhaust system, gear swap with drag wheels and tires, upper and
lower control arms, etc.
Right there is not only a list of parts I would not consdider removing from "my" car, but over $3,000 worth of parts and labour just to do the deed.
Running 12's is possible with a stock-ish Fox body, but I wouldn't consider it easy, or cheap.
I'll have to agree to disagree. I guess it did "barely squeak into the 12's" and I did drive the sh*t out of it (is there any other way to drive?
) but I didn't spend very much money at all, and the lack of amenities didn't impact my daily commute.
It was, in fact, a very simple process, and safety was not compromised in any way.
The car was actually my daily driver at the time. All seats were still intact, and the car had an in-dash DVD player to keep the kids entertained on the way to and from daycare on weekdays.
I took that picture of parts I removed from the car strictly for entertainment purposes. If you pay attention to what you're looking at, most of those parts were
replaced, rather than removed altogether. The exhaust, wheels & tires, and so on. It wasn't
that light...
You guys are looking at extremes and saying that it can be done. Sure if I had a Fox as a project car with the sole purpose of running a 12 second 1/4 mile then I could strip it down to barely streetable and rip everything out of it and run a 12 second quart on a stock motor. But that also assumes I have a place to do all the stripping and to store all the parts along with the time and tools and know how to effectively accomplish this task and still make it track worthy. And EVEN then it will BARELY make it into the 12's, the motor will be shot to crap, and you're still gonna spend a decent amount of money. Unless you're a very experienced mechanic with a welder, mandrel bender, a lift, power tools, extra time to spare, a few friends to help, etc, etc.
For the kid who is the OP, this is not the case. And for most of the members on this board, this is not the case. Most people are using their car as their DD or maybe a weekend hotrod. Most don't wanna (or can't) give up heat, A/C, power steering, a sound system, door panels, head lights, etc. So in the average, everyday, enthusiast, DD car...then yes it will most definitely cost a bit of money to have a Fox in the 12s and be reliable and somewhat comfortable/streetable/track worthy at the same time.
Again, my 12-second stocker was not barely streetable. On the contrary, it was my daily driver and it did a great job of hauling the kids back and forth to daycare while daddy was at work. Sure, I gave up the A/C and power steering, but that's it. It wasn't difficult to build the car to that level either. I have a small Craftsman toolbox with four drawers worth of hand tools and that's it. Nothing beyond the reach of most hobbyists.
This part is worth noting: you said that on the quest to run 12s with the stock 302,
"the motor will be shot to crap". Even I am still in shock about how untrue that turned out... After the car ran 12s NA, I added a ProCharger and beat the CRAP outta that engine for many passes and plenty of street miles. Then, when the time came to pull the motor for the 427" swap, I installed the same engine/trans/rear-end in an old '93 notch I had, and I beat the crap outta that car for almost two years. In the end, the only thing that could kill that motor was a bad accident which totaled the car, and even then, the insurance company DROVE the car onto the car hauler when they hauled it away following the total-loss claim. That 302 refused to die!! (pushrods for life, yo!)
1. Nobody in this hobby is both broke and skill-less. You don't get to be both and still play. So either let go of the budget argument or the cost of labor argument.
2. You make that car out to be a ticking time bomb, but IIRC he later put an enormous procharger on it and ran 10s. If it did that, 12s were a walk in the park.
3. 12.9 still counts as 12s. When guys in the new Coyotes are running 12.9s, nobody's pissing and moaning "barely".
4. With a calibrated meter you really can get away with a lot without a tune. My car is even an extreme example, and though I do want to tune ot to get the most out of it, I have a few thousand miles on the new motor, a handful of 1/4 mile passes, no tune,and no real significant issues.
FWIW, over the years I have built an entire
suspension for my car, transmission, brakes, engine, rear end, etc etc. No welder, no bender, no lift, and a lot of that was done in a 1 car garage. In fact, I rebuilt the rear end and put 3.73s in it literally on a kitchen table. If you guys think what Sharad did to his car was a lot of work, you're crazy.
1. I completely agree with your opening comment Nik. We're all hobbyists. We all have a few tools, someplace to work on the car, and buddies to help us out... usually in exchange for free beer and pizza. That's what it's all about!
2. Indeed, even the ProCharger F1-R (!!!) didn't kill that 302.
3. Yeah, agree, but I'm not offended by the "barely" comment. Nobody gives me as hard a time as my own friends... that's what they're for, right?? If my friends didn't talk smack to me, I'd think there was something wrong.
4. Correct. I usually don't tune my EEC-IV cars. Just fuel pressure and timing.
BTW, thank you for your kind words.
My bad if I seemed like I was making his car out to be a bomb. Not saying his (or anyone's) car is a bomb. I'm just saying that sometimes people are only interested in running a specific time on a budget and so they don't waste money on certain items. I'm saying that in the case of Sharad, this wasn't his everyday car. There was a specific purpose for that car. The OP (and the majority of others) is in a different boat. Can a Fox run 12s on a stock engine? Sure. For less than $2,000? Sure, if you can do most of the labor and strip a lot of stuff out. Can it do so for less than $2,000 on a stock engine and get you to and from school or work and around town reliably and somewhat comfortably? Well that depends on what your idea of reliability and comfort is. And IMO, I'd say no it can't (as far as my idea of reliability and comfort is concerned)...not for less than $2,000.
Actually, yes, it was my daily driver. And if you think that was bad, it will be my daily driver again when MPR is done with it. (hopefully next week) But this is what it looks like now:
what im learning from this thread is that i completely suck at driving, my explorer-motored gt runs 13.8@101 with a 2.06 60-ft. sounds like i need new tires and a driver-mod.
whole motor cost ~$700 though, thats with a tfs1 cam and the spring kit.
No dude, it's not like that. And that's what this thread is really about if you read between the lines. 101mph is a decent trap speed for an explorer motor. The bottom line is, if you want to run the number, you have to get a good launch, and drive the crap outta the car (particularly if it's a 5-speed). I ran a 1.69 60-foot time on BFG drag radials and UPR
suspension. It probably would've been a tenth quicker in the 60 and two tenths quicker in the quarter just by switching to M/T ET Drag slicks. It's not like my car was on "kill". More like "Daily Driver Mode." Nevertheless, if your car ran the same 1.69 60-foot time as mine, your 13.8 would become a 13.06. So you see, you're right there with my combo, simply by getting your car to hook outta the hole. That's what it's all about my friend!
lol....didn't crack a valve cover, no....but he pretty much cracked a bolt everywhere else.....just look at that pile of parts. There was considerable effort and hours of stripping involved in running those times along with a pretty decent cost outlay.
Didn't say it wasn't possible, but not exactly commonplace or practical for most people to strip their car, just to make a 12-second pass down the track.
I guess this is one of those times in life where it's all about perspective. You say I
"pretty much cracked a bolt everywhere else..." Dude, that first article was nothing. The car was still very stock at the time, at least as far as I'm concerned. Now the car has a solid-roller 427" with the F1-R, DYNAMIC M2X6 trans w/brake, TCT converter, Strange 40-spline sheetmetal 9", custom fabbed exhaust, mini-tub, SFI 25.2 chassis, parachute, HoleShot wheels & M/T tires, and so on. I've literally shed blood, sweat, tears, and even a tooth during this build. (long story) I fondly recall running the 12s on the stock motor as the easy/fun part of the build.